Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged)

[mapuc]

What I understand there is a little majority in the Greece parliament-so it looks like Greece will obey.

A Danish politician said yesterday- about 2-3 years from now, Greece will again be standing there and begging for more money.

Markus

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Oberon

It really is stupid, the UK always seems to want to cherry pick its role in the EU. Wants to harvest the good stuff without taking the responsibility with the bad stuff.
No wonder the rest of Europe gets fed up with us, I would get fed up with us.

EH!

You lost me on that. We pay 14% of the EU budget - thats £77m a DAY!!!

[Torplexed]

Welcome to immortal Greece, where the party never ends.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

EH!

You lost me on that. We pay 14% of the EU budget - thats £77m a DAY!!!

Last year that figure was put at £55m a day, but we got a rebate on that, so the actual cost was £33m.
In return, we make about £578m a day in trade with the EU thanks to the low tariffs and restrictions between the UK and EU member states.

Of course, you could argue that we'd enjoy such rates outside of the EU...but looking at how the EU has treated Greece, I think they'd be liable to tell us where to stick our trade, and rightly so.

This isn't 1950, we're not a powerful nation anymore, we've little to no industry and barely enough money to run a health service and a military.
I don't see how the UK can be anything other than a joke outside of the EU.


Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand, it looks like the IMF has stated that it won't touch the Greek deal with a ten foot barge pole unless Germany also agrees to write off significant portions of Greek debt. It points out, and rightly so, that this bailout deal will put Greek debt at 200% of GDP which is unsustainably high and so unless large portions of this debt are written off it doesn't see how Greece can possibly meet the forecasted growth rates.
Considering part of the deal with Germany was that Greece should listen more to the IMF it's a bit tragically comic, to use Robert Prestons words:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33531743

And so, Wednesday, the dead-line day, dawns...

[Jimbuna]

^ One problem being....any debt relief for Greece wouls bring calls for equality from countries such as Italy Ireland, Spain and Portugal.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

^ One problem being....any debt relief for Greece wouls bring calls for equality from countries such as Italy Ireland, Spain and Portugal.

Eyup, and probably the UK too if we have any hats in the ring.
We're so deep down the rabbit hole though that the EU might well just have to do it and take the losses on the chin, because otherwise it's just a case of trying to stick fingers in the dam and hope it doesn't break.
Really and truly this crisis should be seen as a chance to rectify the problems that the start-up of the Euro created, yes there were mistakes, some very big ones, but the idea was sound, as I've stated before, single individual European states are nothing compared to the powerhouses of Russia, the US and China, but together the EU is the most powerful economic bloc in the world, with a combined GDP greater than the US.
Yes, the EU is not without its problems, but nationalistic sentiments and stubborn pride are not the way forward.

[Oberon]

Live stream of Greek parliamentary debate with English interpretation.

[Oberon]

The parliamentary debate is likely to go until midnight Brussels time in order to wiggle in a few more hours debate time.

Meanwhile in the streets of Athens...

[Oberon]

Voting will begin shortly.

EDIT: Hearing a lot of 'Nai' (Yes) in the livestream. I think this will likely pass.

[Rhodes]

148 'Nai', 45 'Oxi', 4 abst. Preliminary results or definitive?

[Oberon]

Either way I'd say it's passed.
Now we see what happens next, and how bad the situation on the ground in Athens get when they hear the news.

[Torplexed]

What a never-ending shambles. It certainly was a mistake to let Greece into the EU. It is a mistake of even more monumental proportions to try to save the Greeks from themselves.

Let them go.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

What a never-ending shambles. It certainly was a mistake to let Greece into the EU. It is a mistake of even more monumental proportions to try to save the Greeks from themselves.

Let them go.

The whole EU is a mistake

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

The whole EU is a mistake

Your opinion.

Though I admit that some things need to change and the local governments need to get some of the power back.

[Betonov]

The EU was far from a mistake.
A case of a serious missmanagement and an example of what happens when an economic entity enlarges itself on political and not economic grounds. Yes to that. Reforms are heavily needed.
And a rollback. The EU was never intended to become a steping stone to the federalization of Europe and the EU parliament is a dead weight.
Keep it at free trade, free flow, no borders and one currency and lett the heads of members do the problem solving.