FAREWELL TO SILENT HUNTER

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Sorry that's dead on topic. I regret to inform you that you are in the clear.

Question: there are three ship physics mods that I'm aware of, Webster's, Nisgeis' and yours. Both Webster's and Nisgeis' I've tested and saw that they kept convoys from traveling together in a natural way, opening up the ship spacing and having as many or more bad effects than good ones. Is yours different in that regard?

About the convoys, I really couldn't say. Most of my testing was with individual subs/ships and some final tests of a convoy plowing through waves at 13m/s levels. I haven't seen any convoys in my own play sessions.

I suspect spacing deviations or collisions might happen in battle. I consider it more important to have the individual units work right than to worry over much about convoys. Any realistic physics treatment will inevitably affect convoys somehow; we are starting from a totally unrealistic baseline, after all.

If ships are spaced close together, or they are forced to attempt tight turns, they could have trouble (that happened in RL, too). The solution to that is probably to fix the convoy routes/spacing.

You should try it yourself and see if you like it.

[Rockin Robbins]

I will. I just have to load up TMO/RSRDC again as I'm on a GFO cruise to make videos and reacquaint myself with the game. I'm more interested in helping beginners than old salts because old salts are set in their ways (heck, they're already having fun), while beginners are searching for ways to win in what appears to be an unwinnable simulation. It's fun to watch someone go from "there's no way to survive in this game" to "I sank 40k tons my last cruise!" It's fun to see people stay with and enjoy SH4 who would have quit in disgust.

But I'll load it up and take some time lapse of the Convoy from Hell mission after I shoot a couple of torpedoes in the middle of the convoy and before. And I'll post the same results from Webster's mod (still have that for sure) and maybe, if I can find it, from Nisgeis' mod. I remember that I wasn't satisfied with either but don't remember the details.

[Rockin Robbins]

As luck would have it the first test I found was Jrex's Ship Acceleration Physics, developed for inclusion in RFB. , easily duplicated. I had remembered wrongly and thought it way by Nisgeis, not Jrex. It looks like Webster's Ship Maneuvering Fix is included in GFO, which I'm running now.

Edit: I'm reshooting the Webster Ship Maneuvering Fix video and trying to make it as identical to the Jrex test as possible.

[Rova]

I too have played SH4 on and off for many years (currently back at it) but have always kept it on my hard drive. This website/forum has proven to be a very valuable resource to me filled with useful information and many knowledgeable people that are willing to help others. Thanks to all.

[20000 Leagues]

I can understand your frustration with this game! I've been playing SH3 for some time and only recently started playing SH4. I've tried different mods to make the game better and in the end, I can't stand SH4. I wish I'd never wasted my time or money on it. Back to SH3 for me.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by 20000 Leagues

I I've been playing SH3 for some time and only recently started playing SH4. I've tried different mods to make the game better and in the end, I can't stand SH4.

What about it specifically? I play both and nearly every flaw in SH4 is also in 3. Not only that, but 3 is a bit cruder in places and sometimes I find it to be really annoying. I just really wish that h.sie would give sh4 some exe patch love.

[20000 Leagues]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

What about it specifically? I play both and nearly every flaw in SH4 is also in 3. Not only that, but 3 is a bit cruder in places and sometimes I find it to be really annoying. I just really wish that h.sie would give sh4 some exe patch love.

SH3 does seem crude in some ways compared to SH4, but there are mods that make up for it. I think modders need to give SH4 the love that SH3 has received.

Things I didn't like right off the bat;

1. Obstructions on the bridge the prevented me from seeing 180.
2. Lousy instruments that take away from the "feel" of the boat.
3. The clutter on my nav map.
4. The cheesy star where my objective was.
5. Ships wouldn't show up on my battle map (made close quarters fights with DD's difficult).
6. The watch crew would announce aircraft, but not the direction they were coming from (made it hard to turn the boat in the optimal direction).
7. That same crew would (maybe) announce warships spotted, but again not where they spotted them.
8. Crappy spray off the bow.
9. Not crazy about the targeting set up.
10. Don't feel like the odds are against me (not the game's fault).


Now, it's not all bad. There were things I liked about the game. Maybe I just need more than a day to overcome the "this isn't SH3" feeling. Perhaps I could try some other mods. I'll get back to you on it.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by 20000 Leagues

SH3 does seem crude in some ways compared to SH4, but there are mods that make up for it.

Not the things that I found annoying, at least not to my knowledge. The stopwatch pegs at a 1 hour. Having to use the dumb repeater clock instead of having a stopwatch you can use in literally every screen. The charting system feels substantially clunkier. No native widescreen. The godawful crew management system. Things like that. Don't get me wrong, I really like SH3, but it just hasn't aged well in places.


1: TMO and, I believe really every major mod pack, unlocks the camera. You can literally walk around the obstruction.
2: Not sure what you mean. If it's just the styling, they are based on styles used by very different navies, so of course they look different.
3: While I agree that the tools system of SH4 adds some clutter, I like having actual tools you can interface with over the phantom dropdown of sh3. Besides, with widescreen, you probably have just as much real estate with the tools in sh4 as you did in sh3 with 4:3.
5: Turn on map contacts under realism.
6 & 7: I agree, it's annoying. You can mostly work around it easily by either asking the crew for the nearest visual contact or by turning on map contacts so you can see them on the map. Also, you'll get radar pretty quickly in the war, so you'll know where the contacts are long before the watch crew can see them anyways.
9: The American TDC is honestly better than the German one once you know how to use it. The only thing I like about the German setup over the US setup is the way the AOB is linked to periscope bearing. I feel certain that the German setup allows me to engage multiple targets more rapidly. On the other hand, the German boats don't have enough peak firepower for the advantage to really shine so it feels like sort of a moot point. Oh, also automatic spread angles, but it's not a huge deal to me.
4 & 8: are really splitting hairs though.


If you're a sh3 vet and want some challenge, I'm guessing that you'll probably be best served by TMO. It tends to lean towards making things difficult.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

While I agree that the tools system of SH4 adds some clutter, I like having actual tools you can interface with over the phantom dropdown of sh3.

It's funny how people differ. When I first played SH4 I too found the tools on the table annoying. I've come to appreciate them so much that these days I use the 'SH4 Map Tools for SH3' mod.

[20000 Leagues]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

The godawful crew management system.

Have to agree with that. That's likely THE one greatest annoyance for me in SH3. It does get better as the crew gains experience. But it goes against my theory of how skippering a sub should be. IMHO, the skipper shouldn't micro manage every detail of the boat. There are Petty Officers or even the XO that can manage shift changes. GWX 8-hour makes the whole thing a little more manageable.

6 & 7: I agree, it's annoying. You can mostly work around it easily by either asking the crew for the nearest visual contact or by turning on map contacts so you can see them on the map. Also, you'll get radar pretty quickly in the war, so you'll know where the contacts are long before the watch crew can see them anyways.

Good to know.

9: The American TDC is honestly better than the German one once you know how to use it. The only thing I like about the German setup over the US setup is the way the AOB is linked to periscope bearing. I feel certain that the German setup allows me to engage multiple targets more rapidly. On the other hand, the German boats don't have enough peak firepower for the advantage to really shine so it feels like sort of a moot point. Oh, also automatic spread angles, but it's not a huge deal to me.

It may be for longer shots. I'll have to play with it more. My style when engaging DD's is to bring them in close for a dogfight. So far, I've found the German set up better for fast/close shots. Oddly enough, I started liking SH4 a little more today. I was just off the Japanese coast and got into a dogfight with two DD's. Sunk one, hit one and it tried to get away. I gave chase and rammed four fish up its......um......stern. The only reason I poured so many fish to his stern is because I couldn't keep up and was going to lose him. I couldn't have that!! LOL!! Then I sailed down to about 250 miles off Tokyo and tangled with two more DD's. Cruised around after that and tagged three freighters. Heading home I took down two more freighters with my deck gun. Threw in a half dozen planes and sailed into port feeling pretty good!

4 & 8: are really splitting hairs though.

More like nitpicking. I admit, I was just down on the game in general and didn't give it a chance. Shame on me. I know better and was just tired and feeling a little crusty. Apologies to my fellow skippers.

If you're a sh3 vet and want some challenge, I'm guessing that you'll probably be best served by TMO. It tends to lean towards making things difficult.

I'll give that one a try. That was one reason I didn't totally love LSH3. The graphics and overall gameplay was great, but the DD's were more like stray dogs than the bloodhound uber killers in GWX.

Good chatting with you. Cheers!!

[20000 Leagues]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It's funny how people differ. When I first played SH4 I too found the tools on the table annoying. I've come to appreciate them so much that these days I use the 'SH4 Map Tools for SH3' mod.

That's so true. It's what we get used to also I would imagine. If I had started out on SH4, I may have found SH3 minimalist. SH3 was the first "first person" naval game I'd ever played. Historically I've played grand scale strategy games or first person infantry/SpecOps or air combat simulators. I loved SH3 right off in vanilla. Then as I added mods it became the greatest game I'd ever played. I'm a history buff, so playing a game that incorporated real events was right up my alley.

[Ludwig van Hursh]

I personally enjoy SH-4 a more than SH-3 but still love both games. In SH-3 I like the tension where as in SH-4 I feel like I'm more apart of the war as the game seems to make it feel more like that there is an actual war going on by the end patrol briefings or the messages you receive in patrol. Oh I also love the crew interface.

great discussion going on but I think the OP bailed out of this thread way back at post #23

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by 20000 Leagues

I was just off the Japanese coast and got into a dogfight with two DD's. Sunk one, hit one and it tried to get away. I gave chase and rammed four fish up its......um......stern. The only reason I poured so many fish to his stern is because I couldn't keep up and was going to lose him.

Yes, the old "up the poop chute" shot! A leading candidate for the most fun you can have with a DD and some torpedoes.

[Rockin Robbins]

Okay all and Webster, I've reshot the test of Webster's Ship Maneuvering Fix and this is as incorporated into GFO. The short story is that formations didn't stay together when I wasn't detected but convoy behavior after contact was exemplary. , meant to duplicate the one on Jrex's mod as closely as possible.

Please keep in mind that this is probably NOT something either modder had in mind when making the mod. Webster, any thoughts?

Torpx, I'm chomping at the bit to try yours but a "typical russian" just comped me a copy of Ironclads American Civil War 2 in return for some videos, so that goes on the front burner for awhile. Hope that's a great game.

I get a bit tired of comparing SH3 to SH4. They're both very well executed games. SH3 suffers from the "don't save unless you are outside of x miles from shore, not within x miles of any targer, on the surface, facing Mecca, saying shalom! and bowing or your career will be trashed" syndrome. Its atmosphere is incomparable, every feature of the game contributing as one to the emotional backdrop. SH4 just doesn't compare with the atmosphere of SH3. But it's a great game, I'd argue the best subsim ever made by just a shade over SH3. But who cares? If you don't own both you're missing something big.