Jane Fonda: ‘Hanoi Jane’ Moment Was A ‘Huge Mistake’ - Page 4

Bilge_Rat · 01-21-15, 05:27 PM

sort of semi-related, but Sean Penn visited Iraq in december 2002 a few months before the invasion protesting the U.S. government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2577981.stm

There is a parallel, but his visit has been completely forgotten. Why does the "Hanoi Jane" story still resonate?

Bilge_Rat · 01-21-15, 05:33 PM

OTOH, Iva D'Aquino, a U.S. citizen, better known as "Tokyo Rose" was convicted of treason and spent 6 years in jail, even though a DOJ investigation had concluded her broadcasts were "innocuous".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva_Toguri_D'Aquino

Platapus · 01-21-15, 05:45 PM

Perhaps it is time to let the Jane Fonda episode fade away. It is not like she is any type of politically influential person today.

I would never vote for Jane for any political position, but then again, she does not seem interested in running. She does seem to regret what she did when she was in her 30's. According to her, and there is no conflicting evidence, she was set up during that photograph.

Even today we teach our military to be on the look out for how "innocent" pictures can be used against us and our country.

Continuing to vilify her does not really help anything.

But on the other hand, everyone has the right to dislike her and that's a personal choice.

Life is too short to stress over Jane Fonda.

Jeff-Groves · 01-21-15, 06:36 PM

As for the success of anti-democracy protests by radical protagonists like Fonda, John Kerry and others, Hanoi could not have been more pleased.
General Vo Nguyen Giap, supreme leader of the North Vietnamese Army, told CBS in a 1989 interview: "We paid a high price [during the Tet offensive] but so did you [Americans] ... not only in lives and materiel. Do not forget the war was brought into the living rooms of the American people. ... The most important result of the Tet offensive was it made you de-escalate the bombing, and it brought you to the negotiation table. It was, therefore, a victory.... The war was fought on many fronts. At that time the most important one was American public opinion. "
More to the point, in a 1995 interview with The Wall Street Journal, Bui Tin, a communist contemporary of Giap and Ho Chi Minh, who was serving as an NVA colonel assigned to the general staff at the time Saigon fell, had this to say about the Leftmedia and Soviet puppets like "Hanoi" Jane Fonda and John Kerry: "[They were] essential to our strategy. Support of the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

Tells me all I need to know.

Platapus · 01-21-15, 06:47 PM

Jeff, Any particular reason why you would believe what a former enemy would say? Don't you think it would be in their best interest to say what they said?

Jeff-Groves · 01-21-15, 06:49 PM

The whole thing was over and done with. Any reason you think they would lie?
Sounds a lot like bragging to me.

I have my stance, you have yours. We will never agree but I respect your right to believe what you believe.

August · 01-21-15, 06:57 PM

Motivation for ones actions might be a partially mitigating factor but it's certainly not an excuse. There is a vast difference between protesting a war on a college campus and hanging out with the enemy just down the street from where ones countrymen are being held captive in horrific conditions. I think the Islamic terrorist comparisons are quite apt. Nothing they have done is any worse than what the VC and NVA did routinely yet were an American actress to pose with ISIL fighters on weapons used to kill her countrymen the nation would be outraged and justifiably so.

Jeff-Groves · 01-21-15, 07:05 PM

I just hope Jane goes to her grave being hounded by her actions everyday.
If that makes me a bad Guy? I'm pretty sure I can live with that.
I live with a whole hell of a lot worse things.

Cybermat47 · 01-22-15, 12:08 AM

I only just heard about this.

Wow. Just wow.

Please, save the visits to enemy countries for when the war is over and we aren't enemies any more.

That's just common sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

I just hope Jane goes to her grave being hounded by her actions everyday.

Apparently she is.

Cybermat47 · 01-22-15, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-15

Don't think Jane Fonda has heard of The Sacred Band of Thebes, who were all male lovers within the same unit, and were well known for their ferocity in battle

Hey, I love the Sacred Band of Thebes

Not that they were unique with the male lovers bit. Pederastic relationships were a major part of Spartan training.

vanjast · 01-22-15, 04:38 PM

You pro-USA-War people seem to forget.. that every war you've started.. you've lost, at a high price. Some people were brave enough to know this and protested... coz your politicians, then and as today, are leading you down the road to destruction and massive loss of life... under the pretext of patriotism. So when are you going to stand up and be counted.. or are you going to be a lemming and run blindly into another lost battle - there are other ways to 'skin a cat'.

Jimbuna · 01-22-15, 04:58 PM

Didn't America win the war of independance?

Jeff-Groves · 01-22-15, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Didn't America win the war of independance?

You say that like it was a good thing.
Some of us are starting to wonder.

Jimbuna · 01-22-15, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

You say that like it was a good thing.
Some of us are starting to wonder.

LOL

Sailor Steve · 01-22-15, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Didn't America win the war of independance?

We didn't start it.

01-21-15, 05:27 PM	#46
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	sort of semi-related, but Sean Penn visited Iraq in december 2002 a few months before the invasion protesting the U.S. government. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2577981.stm There is a parallel, but his visit has been completely forgotten. Why does the "Hanoi Jane" story still resonate? __________________

01-21-15, 05:33 PM	#47
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	OTOH, Iva D'Aquino, a U.S. citizen, better known as "Tokyo Rose" was convicted of treason and spent 6 years in jail, even though a DOJ investigation had concluded her broadcasts were "innocuous". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva_Toguri_D'Aquino __________________

01-21-15, 05:45 PM	#48
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Perhaps it is time to let the Jane Fonda episode fade away. It is not like she is any type of politically influential person today. I would never vote for Jane for any political position, but then again, she does not seem interested in running. She does seem to regret what she did when she was in her 30's. According to her, and there is no conflicting evidence, she was set up during that photograph. Even today we teach our military to be on the look out for how "innocent" pictures can be used against us and our country. Continuing to vilify her does not really help anything. But on the other hand, everyone has the right to dislike her and that's a personal choice. Life is too short to stress over Jane Fonda. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-21-15, 06:47 PM	#50
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Jeff, Any particular reason why you would believe what a former enemy would say? Don't you think it would be in their best interest to say what they said? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-21-15, 06:57 PM	#52
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Motivation for ones actions might be a partially mitigating factor but it's certainly not an excuse. There is a vast difference between protesting a war on a college campus and hanging out with the enemy just down the street from where ones countrymen are being held captive in horrific conditions. I think the Islamic terrorist comparisons are quite apt. Nothing they have done is any worse than what the VC and NVA did routinely yet were an American actress to pose with ISIL fighters on weapons used to kill her countrymen the nation would be outraged and justifiably so. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

01-21-15, 06:36 PM	#49
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	As for the success of anti-democracy protests by radical protagonists like Fonda, John Kerry and others, Hanoi could not have been more pleased. General Vo Nguyen Giap, supreme leader of the North Vietnamese Army, told CBS in a 1989 interview: "We paid a high price [during the Tet offensive] but so did you [Americans] ... not only in lives and materiel. Do not forget the war was brought into the living rooms of the American people. ... The most important result of the Tet offensive was it made you de-escalate the bombing, and it brought you to the negotiation table. It was, therefore, a victory.... The war was fought on many fronts. At that time the most important one was American public opinion. " More to the point, in a 1995 interview with The Wall Street Journal, Bui Tin, a communist contemporary of Giap and Ho Chi Minh, who was serving as an NVA colonel assigned to the general staff at the time Saigon fell, had this to say about the Leftmedia and Soviet puppets like "Hanoi" Jane Fonda and John Kerry: "[They were] essential to our strategy. Support of the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses." Tells me all I need to know.

01-21-15, 06:49 PM	#51
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	The whole thing was over and done with. Any reason you think they would lie? Sounds a lot like bragging to me. I have my stance, you have yours. We will never agree but I respect your right to believe what you believe.

01-21-15, 07:05 PM	#53
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	I just hope Jane goes to her grave being hounded by her actions everyday. If that makes me a bad Guy? I'm pretty sure I can live with that. I live with a whole hell of a lot worse things.

01-22-15, 04:38 PM	#56
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,733 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	You pro-USA-War people seem to forget.. that every war you've started.. you've lost, at a high price. Some people were brave enough to know this and protested... coz your politicians, then and as today, are leading you down the road to destruction and massive loss of life... under the pretext of patriotism. So when are you going to stand up and be counted.. or are you going to be a lemming and run blindly into another lost battle - there are other ways to 'skin a cat'.

01-22-15, 04:58 PM	#57
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Didn't America win the war of independance? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!