Gay Apple

[Eichhörnchen]

That's all absolutely correct, Betonov. I agree with you entirely.

Maybe what's happened here is just a question of semantics: it might be better for gays to just say "I'm not ashamed to be gay". Saying "I'm proud" gives it a somewhat pro-active, confrontational tone which might rile others. I think maybe that's what's happened.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Eichhornchen

Maybe what's happened here is just a question of semantics

Running the risk of discrediting what I said in my previous post: if Tim Cook being gay was known for a long time, then this is a 100% publicity stunt.

And (same risk): when you get out, get out proud and loud. After that, well, don't deny and don't overdue it. You showed the bigots off, now continue with your life like any other normal person.

[Oberon]

Meanwhile in Russia:

[Feuer Frei!]

More important to announce being left-handed?
Or more important to promote Company?

Tim knows the answer. Do you?

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Meanwhile in Russia:

Meanwhile in America: Out of the closet, into the end zone.

Ummm. Let me rephrase that.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by Tchocky
Gay pride exists because gay shame exists.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Quote of the week!

[vanjast]

Yeah, but here's the thing: straight people have never been an oppressed group.

Now being in the USA.. this is currently non-nonsensical.
You're missing the point.. straights don't go around pronouncing they're straight - there is no need to.
So does a gay person have to go tell the world... and on a world stage.

Sounds more like another 'celebrity attention/pity' grubbing effort - people see through this, and have no pity.
IOW they're been treated as any other human being...

.. and 'gay rights activists' jump up and down saying that they're being discriminated against... and want 'equal rights'..

This person was being treated as any human being would..ie ridiculed for being 'stupid', like anyone who'd do something equally idiotic.


Maybe Tim will get a new boyfriend (sorry 'partner') now, now that he's on the world stage

[Oberon]

It's funny really, the biggest amount of fuss about homosexuality comes from homophobes, if there was no homophobia there would be no 'gay pride', because it would not be seen as something abnormal or wrong. There would be no people saying 'oh, men had better keep their backs against the wall', just as noone says 'oh, women had better keep their vaginas against the wall' if a heterosexual man announces he is single, even though the rate of heterosexual rape is far higher than that of homosexual.

Let's put it another way. Name one country on this planet where heterosexuality might place you in social or judicial difficulty. Not just the act, and by which I mean standard consensual sex between two adults of legal age, but also the feeling. Name me a country where you are expected from birth to only be interested in people of your own gender, and expressing an attitude contrary to this would risk social ostracism, and potential legal action...with the added possibility of execution thrown into the mix, or perhaps castration.

Now try the reverse, where homosexuality is illegal or seen as.socially or morally wrong and compare the numbers.

I'll wait...

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Yeah, but here's the thing: straight people have never been an oppressed group. Name one country where straight people can't get married.


Straight pride doesn't exist, because straight shame doesn't exist. Straight people who died in the holocaust didn't die because they were straight, but gay people who were killed died BECAUSE they were gay.

I've been bullied for being autistic. As a result, I'm proud to be autistic. Why? Because that's who I am. Gay pride isn't being proud of being attracted to people of the same sex, it's being proud of being yourself, even though people hate you for it.

Very well put. For those who have never experienced official organizational discrimination, it can be difficult to understand the importance of being recognized for what you are.

It is one thing to be discriminated against by people. That has always and will probably will happen. This is different when there are laws/regulations/rules from governing bodies that officially discriminate against someone.

Perhaps it is the interpretation of "pride" that is awkward. It may not be the best word. It is not so much being proud of being (insert discrimination category), it is more like, "I don't have conceal it any more." When you have been discriminated against, being able to not conceal something can be uplifting and empowering.

Yes, there is no "straight pride" because there has not been a history of straight people needing to conceal their straight orientation in order to get/keep a job or be a parent.

[vanjast]

You most likely find homophobia origins in religious texts.. and funny enough some churches/religions ban it outright.. although their 'brethren' obviously haven't heard about that yet. ?

If we're going to be all treated like human beings, irrespective of orientation, one has to be able to roll with what it takes to be 'different'. We all have to go through this in our lives... being gay doesn't require any more special attention than being straight, or just being a weirdo.

Jokes, quirks.. etc.. are par for the course.. time to toughen up and stop crying, otherwise they'll 'ride' you.

[Skybird]

Criticise Islam, and you are called Islamophobe. Criticise homosexual hysteria at least in the West, and you are called a Homophobe. Critizise unregulated, undiscriminated migration, and you are called Xenoiphobe.

Oberon, have you ever been called a reasonophobe? Well, today's the day.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Yeah, but here's the thing: straight people have never been an oppressed group. Name one country where straight people can't get married.


Straight pride doesn't exist, because straight shame doesn't exist. Straight people who died in the holocaust didn't die because they were straight, but gay people who were killed died BECAUSE they were gay.

I've been bullied for being autistic. As a result, I'm proud to be autistic. Why? Because that's who I am. Gay pride isn't being proud of being attracted to people of the same sex, it's being proud of being yourself, even though people hate you for it.

Originally Posted by Platapus

Very well put. For those who have never experienced official organizational discrimination, it can be difficult to understand the importance of being recognized for what you are.

It is one thing to be discriminated against by people. That has always and will probably will happen. This is different when there are laws/regulations/rules from governing bodies that officially discriminate against someone.

Perhaps it is the interpretation of "pride" that is awkward. It may not be the best word. It is not so much being proud of being (insert discrimination category), it is more like, "I don't have conceal it any more." When you have been discriminated against, being able to not conceal something can be uplifting and empowering.

Yes, there is no "straight pride" because there has not been a history of straight people needing to conceal their straight orientation in order to get/keep a job or be a parent.

Both well said.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Criticise Islam, and you are called Islamophobe. Criticise homosexual hysteria at least in the West, and you are called a Homophobe. Critizise unregulated, undiscriminated migration, and you are called Xenoiphobe.

Oberon, have you ever been called a reasonophobe? Well, today's the day.

I'm going for broke and claim Panphobia.
Except for Turophobia. Cheese don't scare me.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oberon, have you ever been called a reasonophobe? Well, today's the day.

Excellent, I shall add it to the list.

Originally Posted by vanjast

You most likely find homophobia origins in religious texts.. and funny enough some churches/religions ban it outright.. although their 'brethren' obviously haven't heard about that yet. ?

If we're going to be all treated like human beings, irrespective of orientation, one has to be able to roll with what it takes to be 'different'. We all have to go through this in our lives... being gay doesn't require any more special attention than being straight, or just being a weirdo.

Jokes, quirks.. etc.. are par for the course.. time to toughen up and stop crying, otherwise they'll 'ride' you.

It most likely did originate in religious texts, probably as a means to make sure that humanity kept breeding back when the population was in the high millions as opposed to billions. Back when child mortality was such that if you didn't have lots of children then the continuation of your linage was in doubt.
Those days, like so many things people fight to cling on to now, are long gone. Our population is 7 billion and climbing, so a percentage of homosexuals really isn't going to make a dent in it.
I fully agree with you if we are to all be treated as equals...but unfortunately many many people haven't got that message, many people still think that x person is better than y person because z. Be it that a white person is better than a black, a man is better than a woman, or a heterosexual is better than a homosexual. As such, equality is not possible if the status quo is not challenged. I have posted two examples in this thread already of where homosexual people have been persecuted for their beliefs, and I have challenged people to find me a country in the current day where heterosexual people are persecuted in the same way. As of yet I have received no answer.
And as for being 'different', surely the whole point of being treated equally is that you are not 'different'? Surely the point is to eliminate the focus on what makes us different, and celebrate that which we have the same? Of course, this also works in detriment of gay pride, but I suspect that if homophobia was to disappear overnight then eventually gay pride events would also become a thing of the past. As has already been said, the only reason there is gay pride is because there exists such a thing as gay shame. You remove the shame, there's no need for the pride.

In regards to jokes, I'm all for them, but if you wouldn't make the same joke in regards to a straight person, then why make it for a homosexual? Again, is this not emphasising the difference?

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

I'm going for broke and claim Panphobia.

No, I think that's someone else on this thread...certainly judging by the amount of things that are going to cause the downfall of humanity/Europe/the world: The EU, Banks, Capitalism, Socialism, Democracy, Religion, Muslims...have I missed anything out?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Women , you forgot about the women

Ah...of course! Must be that reasonophobia of mine.