(REL) Destroyer Depth charge Range Fix

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Yes the problem with escorts and destroyers blowing themselves up is there but that is not a problem of the DCs - that is a problem of the ship AI. Trying to fix an effect rather than the cause is not the way to do it.

Good point.

Nonetheless, even medicine cures the symptoms when it is not possible to remove their causes. Imho, until you find a way to "cure" destroyer's AI, there are three acceptable workarounds that we can use:

- increasing minimum kgun's throwing distance, as done by V13, but without decreasing DC's blast radius;

- if possible, decreasing DCs AP value just enough to make them unable to harm destroyer hulls without hampering their effectiveness against U-boat's hull.

- setting a new zone for destroyer's bow sections with increased AP.

[V13dweller]

Right now, my fix slightly increases the range of one of the KGuns, and decreases the range of the Depth Charge explosion.

Is there anything here that should/needs to be changed?

I am not going to attempt to fiddle with the ship AI, way out of my league.

Ill leave that to our resident AI guy, TDW

[gap]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

Right now, my fix slightly increases the range of one of the KGuns, and decreases the range of the Depth Charge explosion.

Is there anything here that should/needs to be changed?

Imo, increasing KGuns range is okay, but not decreasing Depth Charge explosion range (for the reason explained below by TDW).

[TheDarkWraith]

The only way to fix the AI for this is:
- they are not allowed to fire DCs unless contact's depth <= -60m (or whatever the range is of the DCs)

This means that they will never fire DCs if you are in shallow waters. It's a catch 22 scenario.

Increasing the ship's AP value for the hull will/could render shell and torpedo damage ineffective.

There's really no easy solution other than decreasing the radius of the DCs but then you hardly ever incur damage from the DCs then.

[TheDarkWraith]

Or we totally redo the sub's AP values - make the highest AP value less than the lowest ship hull AP value and then make the AP value of the DCs the AP value of the subs

[gap]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Increasing the ship's AP value for the hull will/could render shell and torpedo damage ineffective.

All in all, I think it is a matter of finding a good balance between thrower's range, DC's AP ability, destroyer and U-boat AP protection. Using only one of the above approaches at a time, will result in unbalanced gameplay.

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Or we totally redo the sub's AP values - make the highest AP value less than the lowest ship hull AP value and then make the AP value of the DCs the AP value of the subs

yes, something like this, but throwing random numbers is the wrong way to do it. At first, we should convert game settings into real figures, for understanding how mach stock/Fx Update/IRAI settings fit the different strenghts of various WWII vessels.

[V13dweller]

Originally Posted by gap

Imo, increasing KGuns range is okay, but not decreasing Depth Charge explosion range (for the reason explained below by TDW).

Tomorrow, I will get around to setting the DC explosion range back to the IRAI defaults and increase the KGun range.

[V13dweller]

I have just released version 1.1.

Check post #1.

[V13dweller]

I would like to comment to TDW, that the ships are not moving fast enough when they use their MK9 DC's, and when they drop their charges, they are damaged by the ones falling from the racks.

But I have managed to fix the ones from the KGuns, the charges from the KGuns are not causing damage to the ship.
It's only the ones falling from the racks.

This is especially common when the German/Italian vessels attack the English vessels because they do not hang very deep compared to the German U-Boats, and the English vessels hang around 40-50 meters deep, and the charge radius is 70 on the basic charge and 60 on the MK9.

So, Volodya, this was not my fault.

My fix Only fixed the charges launched from the KGuns.
I do believe that the MK9 Charge is very dangerous to the ship, more than the sub, the ships are able to escape the slow falling speed on the basic charge, but they are not able to escape the explosion range of the Mk9.

[Fifi]

Thanks for new release
Gonna try it and change my mods list for it.

[V13dweller]

If the destroyers damage themselves now, the only thing I can do is decrease the max range of the DC explosion its self, but that would interfere with TDW's IRAI, and the lethality of the destroyers them selves.

It's a problem the the AI, not my mod.

The destroyers will only damage themselves if the target is above 70~ish meters.

And for the record on the previous pages, the DC store is a leftover from using my Mac to process an upload files.
My mac seems to put a strange files into Zips, and I always upload files using my mac, I do the actual work on my windows machine.

[THE_MASK]

The chances you are killed by depth charges should be slim especially if playing the whole campaign . ATM destroyers cannot be destroying themselves . Can we have a reduced depth charge max range as a mod . There are other ways of dying in SH5

[V13dweller]

Originally Posted by sober

The chances you are killed by depth charges should be slim especially if playing the whole campaign . ATM destroyers cannot be destroying themselves . Can we have a reduced depth charge max range as a mod . There are other ways of dying in SH5

If this is what you want, I could reset it back to what it originally did.

The Original mod ONLY decreased the DC explosion radius, and slightly changed throw ranges.

[gap]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

If this is what you want, I could reset it back to what it originally did.

The Original mod ONLY decreased the DC explosion radius, and slightly changed throw ranges.

I think that the best way to do it, is releasing your mod in two parts, V13:

- increased KGuns ranges;
- decreased DC blast radius.

In this way everyone can install the part(s) which fits his own taste

[Vanilla]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

The only way to fix the AI for this is:
- they are not allowed to fire DCs unless contact's depth <= -60m (or whatever the range is of the DCs)

This means that they will never fire DCs if you are in shallow waters. It's a catch 22 scenario.

Increasing the ship's AP value for the hull will/could render shell and torpedo damage ineffective.

There's really no easy solution other than decreasing the radius of the DCs but then you hardly ever incur damage from the DCs then.

Isn't the problem with DCs that DDs fire them at too slow a speed? Maybe code-in contact depth to the self speed ratio and compare it to a 'safe' value? Say
cycle
if (con_depth/my_speed < 0.5) then don't fire DCs;
if (con_depth/my_max_speed >= 0.5) then switch to 'wait to death' tactic
else
increase speed
if (DC fired) then keep current speed for at least X seconds
end_cycle

I read somewhere in a book on submarine topic that it was in fact a problem faced by ASW ships that when the sub was lying on a very shallow bottom they had difficult time using their DCs and sometimes tried to 'wait-out' the sub. Not sure whether it was true though.