Margaret Thatcher Dead!

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yes, she boosted their support and left her succesor to go crawling for a ceasefire and negotiation while publicly claiming the government would never do such a thing.

You snipped the last bit conveniently, which would indicate that i wasn't attempting to get into a discussion about what happened to her successor.

Originally Posted by TorpX

To me, she was a great leader. The political midgets of recent years make this clear. I don't understand why she was a devisive figure.

R.I.P.

This morning on the Radio the late Mrs Thatcher was decribed as this Nations greatest leader since the 40s. Interesting. In this age of self, I can only assume she had the strength of character to put her Country before her own personal interests, ultimately making her a servant.

The greatest amoung you will always be a servant, read this somewhere.

[Sammi79]

I agree about cheering her death being at the very least distasteful, who was it said, 'I will mourn the loss of a thousand lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.' ? On the other hand distasteful doesn't even come close to some of the things she did to a large proportion of British people and a significant number of Argentinian boys. So now I copy pasta, as my views are practically identical and he shares my name;

Thatcher is remembered as The Iron Lady only because she possessed completely negative traits such as persistent stubbornness and a determined refusal to listen to others.

Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the Ivory Trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own Cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone - and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press.

Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes. She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a Prime Minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it.

Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity.
MORRISSEY.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

And that applies to some posts in this thread, mocking her death, albeit veiled, but still mocking it by joking about drinking to her death for example.
Seriously, you may have hated her, hated what she did to your country for those 11 and a half years, but do you really need to disrespect a person's death? Do you?
If you answered yes, then i really wouldn't want to talk to you.

Death isn't anything special. It happens to everyone. It doesn't grant someone mythical status. It doesn't confer some air of invulnerability. Death doesn't make one immune from criticism.

"All men have an emotion to kill; when they strongly dislike some one they involuntarily wish he was dead. I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction." - Clarence Darrow

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Death isn't anything special. It happens to everyone. It doesn't grant someone mythical status. It doesn't confer some air of invulnerability. Death doesn't make one immune from criticism.

Well, you're stating the obvious. However, does the obvious excuse or justify those of us, and i use the term 'us' as in people in general, who take it upon themselves to show delight, jubilation, cheerful expressions, mocking and all sorts of generally-happy attitudes and taking great pleasure by showing those actions at the death of her?
I would imagine and certainly hope that some of us have morals, dignity and respect, which of course not everyone has.

Show some tact, show some respect, show some dignity, don't become the same as the louts from the NSA in Britain, or indeed the numerous party-revellers who on Monday 'celebrated' her death, a human being's death by making asses of themselves. Oh, and injuring 6 policemen in the process.
Fools!

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Fools!

Nuff' said.

You snipped the last bit conveniently, which would indicate that i wasn't attempting to get into a discussion about what happened to her successor.

Would like to deal with your whole comment?
The IRA bombed the conference and kept on bombing people till Britain started talking to them, then when the talks were not going their way they bombed some more to get the talks moving again.
every time a ceasefire was announced it wasn't the union flag or the red hand of ulster the celebratory crowds out on the streets were waving was it.
So what happened after that? now we have Unionist on the streets shooting at and bombing British police because......the fenians lost a vote on flags

I had the misfortune today to be stuck with a hardcore fenian idiot for nearly 2 hours at work this morning.
His appraisal of Thatcher as Prime Minister. "the best thing the Brits did for the IRA since Bloody Sunday"

However, does the obvious excuse or justify those of us, and i use the term 'us' as in people in general, who take it upon themselves to show delight, jubilation, cheerful expressions, mocking and all sorts of generally-happy attitudes and taking great pleasure by showing those actions at the death of her?

With a figure as devisive as her there can only be one expected outcome on the announcement of her demise.
Though I was surprised the Daily Telegraph had to shut down its comments page due to the sheer volume of celebratory posts.

I think the sad legacy of Maggie is that those things which she held the strongest views on preserving or building are the things which untimately she set in chain the destruction of through her short sighted ideologicly driven passion.

Edit to add.
BTW. your comments on Liverpool, for a new perspective on her "cut funding" idea might I suggest reading her cabinet papers which were released to the public in January. Genuinely crazy ideas she had.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

It doesn't grant someone mythical status.

It did for this guy:

[mookiemookie]

He was born under a double rainbow, a new star appeared in the sky and the season changed from winter to spring. He was already mythical. Gosh, don't you know ANYTHING!?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

He was born under a double rainbow, a new star appeared in the sky and the season changed from winter to spring. He was already mythical. Gosh, don't you know ANYTHING!?

You forgot to add his awesome round of golf! As well as his bowling!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

She was a decisive figure because she had a rugged individualism, looking after self interests, rather than being communitarian, she crushed trade unionism, miners, cut funding to Liverpool, she was detested by many.
She stirred up British nationalism with the Faulklands victory. And she was brought down by her own party.
She publicly announced she was going to bring down the IRA, and look what happened after that. The IRA bombed her hotel room in Brighton.
She was once asked what she changed about British politics. She answered: "everything". Modest? Yes, but she was right.

Margaret Thatcher stuck to the practice of saying what she meant and meaning what she said. When she said the lady wasn't for turning, she wasn't. When she said the Falklands must be liberated come what may, they were. When she said that people would be allowed to buy their own council houses, they were too. When she told European politicians that she wanted a rebate on the billions Britain overpaid the EEC, she held out till she got one.

She went down fighting for her principles; no one was in any doubt about what she stood for or what she believed in. You might not have agreed with her, but few deny that hers was a towering political honesty of the kind hardly ever heard from today's so-called leaders.

Margaret Thatcher was responsible for financial deregulation, getting rid of Britain's exchange controls.
She pissed people off, ruined peoples lives. But she stuck up for what she believed in, adapted to new situations and represented the country with an Iron Fist.

As you can see, pros and cons, she was detested, and liked.

Here are some quotes from her:

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."
– on her election as Prime Minister in 1979

"If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something done, ask a woman." – speech to National Union of Townswomen’s Guilds Conference on May 20, 1965

"I am extraordinarily patient — provided I get my own way in the end." – from a March 1982 European Council meeting.


Footnote: What I detest, is not her, but the cheering of her death:
http://sotontab.co.uk/2013/04/08/nus...gret-thatcher/

That sickens me, even though the NUS President Liam Burns gave this statement on the matter later, which of course was forced, is just utter crap!
Whether you liked her, loathed her, detested her, under no circumstances should someone cheer her death! That just shows once again human decency and respect failing, big time.
And that applies to some posts in this thread, mocking her death, albeit veiled, but still mocking it by joking about drinking to her death for example.
Seriously, you may have hated her, hated what she did to your country for those 11 and a half years, but do you really need to disrespect a person's death? Do you?
If you answered yes, then i really wouldn't want to talk to you.

I would say that is a fair and balanced post.

Though plenty will be jumping for joy, she was still a mother and grandmother. There's a family grieving out there and that should be respected, just as all those on here would like to happen to their families at a time like this.

Once the dust has settled, then people can dissect her political beliefs and life and whether she was a saint or sinner. I have my own feelings on this having been a serving police officer during her tenure as well as during the miners strike and also being a fully paid up member of the Labour Party.

Right at this moment we can all hopefully come to the one conclusion, love her or hate her, her family should be respected in their grief.

My appreciation to you all for not derailing this thread and adhering to the wishes of the OP.

[BossMark]

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?

[ABBAFAN]

Originally Posted by BossMark

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?

Interesting idea. Though it won't be a state one but a ceremonial one.

She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone - and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press.

Well So what if she was outside the exclusion zone the Argentines didn't even recognise. The point of the EZ was that all vessels within it would be regarded as hostile not necessarily that those outside would be exempt from military action as military units in a war that that country did start.
The ship could have altered course in 30 seconds and was part of a pincer move being put together. This is the only incident in any war I have read about where the losing side complains it was not fair their ship was sunk.
Warships fight in wars and can sometimes be sunk in them.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by ABBAFAN

Well So what if she was outside the exclusion zone the Argentines didn't even recognise. The point of the EZ was that all vessels within it would be regarded as hostile not necessarily that those outside would be exempt from military action as military units in a war that that country did start.
The ship could have altered course in 30 seconds and was part of a pincer move being put together. This is the only incident in any war I have read about where the losing side complains it was not fair their ship was sunk.
Warships fight in wars and can sometimes be sunk in them.

Agreed for the most part.

although considering the advantage the British fleet enjoyed in terms of large modern naval vessels and nuclear submarines vs antiquated WWII cruisers, they could have waited until she did actually change course and the alleged pincer movement was confirmed. While she was attacked there was still the possibility that she was sailing for port. A course change would have been acknowledged within a minute or 2. Maggie should have declared war first, obviously, as should Argentina once Belgrano was sunk in international waters.

From a military point of view however I think the tactical pre-emptive action was certainly sound.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by BossMark

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?

Considering? There was never any considering done. Not officially anyways.
It will be a ceremonial funeral, 1 step down from a state funeral.
She, whilst alive, rejected a state funeral and a fly-by, saying it was a waste of money.
Having said that, the difference between a state and ceremonial funeral are not overly different from each other.
1 difference being that gun carriage during a state funeral is drawn by Royal Navy ratings rather than artillery horses.