[WIP] PIFT - Page 4

12-03-13, 07:53 PM

gap,

Bear with me as we go through this first part of working with the sorter as you have it now.

That is a version I did not want to release as I could fore see the very questions your asking.

It will fix your issues now once you understand the limitations and how to edit things.
Future versions will make all this a non-issue and will just be a 'click-done'
type thing.

If you've gotten this far? Open the obj file you just exported and search for use.
You should have 2. Those will be listed as material_0 and material_1
There should also be a new mtl file.
Now you can run the sorter on the obj file exported from Meshlab.

gap · 12-03-13, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

gap,

Bear with me as we go through this first part of working with the sorter as you have it now.

That is a version I did not want to release as I could fore see the very questions your asking.

Take my questions as reminders of features which need for attenction. At this stage, I think I am the one who knows more about the limitations of TDW's importer, as most other modders who have messed with his tool seem to use max as their main 3d program, and TDW himself has probably designed his importer over max-generated files

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

It will fix your issues now once you understand the limitations and how to edit things.
Future versions will make all this a non-issue and will just be a 'click-done'
type thing.

I am sorry that I can't test your full method right away, but it is 2 AM here in the old Europe, and my HD cleaning will take some time. I hope to install meshlab within the next 24 hours

12-03-13, 08:15 PM

Take your time Mate.

Your issues have solved several things I was unsure of and could not prove.
Now that they are known? I can program around them and help TDW improve his fantastic work with some real great info.

12-03-13, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Take my questions as reminders of features which need for attenction. At this stage, I think I am the one who knows more about the limitations of TDW's importer, as most other modders who have messed with his tool seem to use max as their main 3d program, and TDW himself has probably designed his importer over max-generated files

I'm thinking he did do alot with wings-3d at one time.

I still can not figure out what he is doing on import though.
I did take your files and run them through S3D into a dat, exported then imported to a GR2. That GR2 showed a weird ratio compared to going through Meshlab and my sorter.

Now I may have a better understanding of 3D file formats and how they work. I don't know for sure.
I know TDW is the better at programming once he understands things.
Me? I hack along to get things to work.

He creates ART!

As for you doing the most with importing and such?
I agree you have the most detailed information and knowledge on useing the GR2 Importer by TDW.
I would not be working with you if it was any other way.

Say the problem of messed up textures never happened? I'd never had started up a project that I lost all the source code for. I'm weird that way.

Targor Avelany · 12-04-13, 12:31 PM

considering that I don't have the sorter, I guess I'll just have to wait.
But I will mess around with the meshlab to see if I can figure out at least the UVs.

In the mean time I'll work on correcting my model encompassing your suggestions.

12-04-13, 12:56 PM

The sorter won't fix your UV problems.
All it does is re-order the information of an obj file to allow TDW's program to read it.

If everything goes as I hope today I'll have a little better version ready.
It will eliminate alot of the hand editing on the sorted file.

tonschk · 12-04-13, 01:27 PM

Thank you a lot

privateer

12-04-13, 03:07 PM

I mentioned I did an import/export useing S3D to adjust the file.
Here's a screen shot of both test imports to GR2.
Look closely at the Vertices count.

The top file was done useing S3D , the bottom useing Meshlab and then sorting the file.
The top GR2 file size is 1,485 KB
The bottom is 411 KB

That is a major saveings and the UV's for both are correct.

gap · 12-04-13, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

I'm thinking he did do alot with wings-3d at one time.

Yes, I used to think so until recently, but all my attempts to perform loose imports of Wings3d-exported object files have failed. Only max-exported objects gave the desired results with loose imports. Strict imports didn't pose any problem though, no matter the exporter used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

I still can not figure out what he is doing on import though.
I did take your files and run them through S3D into a dat, exported then imported to a GR2. That GR2 showed a weird ratio compared to going through Meshlab and my sorter.

Tried that. S3d, Softimage Mod Tool and Blender obj files all show UV map distorsions when imported through GR2 Editor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

As for you doing the most with importing and such?
I agree you have the most detailed information and knowledge on useing the GR2 Importer by TDW.
I would not be working with you if it was any other way.

I got to amend your statement: I am the one who had the worst problems using the GR2 Importer by TDW. I would be curious to hear from BIGREG and Silentmichel who have laso used it extensively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

I mentioned I did an import/export useing S3D to adjust the file.
Here's a screen shot of both test imports to GR2.
Look closely at the Vertices count.

...

The top file was done useing S3D , the bottom useing Meshlab and then sorting the file.
The top GR2 file size is 1,485 KB
The bottom is 411 KB

That is a major saveings and the UV's for both are correct.

Is that the last version of the balloon that I sent you yesterday? Exported straight from Wings3d, that object only has 3,226 vertices, which is even lesser than the 4,020 vertices count of the meshlab export...

12-04-13, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Is that the last version of the balloon that I sent you yesterday? Exported straight from Wings3d, that object only has 3,226 vertices, which is even lesser than the 4,020 vertices count of the meshlab export...

Yes it is.
BUT! it gets the filter in mesh lab run on it!
We converted to pervertex from perwedge.
Some of the verts are repeats but with specific tex co-ords.
It's that whole thing I told you about on shuffleing things like that.
You can't think of an import to a GR2 as a 'perfect copy' of your obj file.

Also, look at the version done through S3D? Not even close to your verts count!
So did you get Meshlab installed yet?

gap · 12-04-13, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Yes it is.
BUT! it gets the filter in mesh lab run on it!
We converted to pervertex from perwedge.
Some of the verts are repeats but with specific tex co-ords.
It's that whole thing I told you about on shuffleing things like that.
You can't think of an import to a GR2 as a 'perfect copy' of your obj file.

Ok thank you, that makes perfect sense, and it explains why objects exported from game (both using GR2 editor or S3d) have so many redundant vertices/edges.

Until now I was erroneously convinced it was due to poor optimization by devs

12-04-13, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Ok thank you, that makes perfect sense, and it explains why objects exported from game (both using GR2 editor or S3d) have so many redundant vertices/edges.

Exporting from a GR2 or with S3D?
I'd run it through Meshlab and use a couple of filters to reduce things right off the bat.

It's not the Tool used causeing that extra info. They are direct exports of information in the files converted to the obj format with no post-processing done. It's perfect translation so to speak.

gap · 12-05-13, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Exporting from a GR2 or with S3D?
I'd run it through Meshlab and use a couple of filters to reduce things right off the bat.

I always use Wings3d's 'Cleanup' command on recently exported objects for getting rid of isolated or very close vertices, followed by a 'Weld Point Tool' processing in Softimage Mod Tool. I also find Mod Tool's poly reduction tool very useful, but I only use it on my own high poly models.

gap · 12-07-13, 06:34 PM

@ privateer

I have saved the texture in jpg format and changed model's mtl file according to your instructions, but everytime I open the model in MeshLab (v 1.3.2_64bit), I receive the following message:

The obj file itself is still the one exported from Wings 3d, of course. What do I do wrong?

Anvart · 12-08-13, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

...
Until now I was erroneously convinced it was due to poor optimization by devs

Are you the wrong (bad) opinions about the developers?
Import/export from/to obj-files by TDW's (or privateer's) program does not have any relation to developers.
I think.

12-03-13, 07:53 PM	#46
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	gap, Bear with me as we go through this first part of working with the sorter as you have it now. That is a version I did not want to release as I could fore see the very questions your asking. It will fix your issues now once you understand the limitations and how to edit things. Future versions will make all this a non-issue and will just be a 'click-done' type thing. If you've gotten this far? Open the obj file you just exported and search for use. You should have 2. Those will be listed as material_0 and material_1 There should also be a new mtl file. Now you can run the sorter on the obj file exported from Meshlab. Last edited by Madox58; 12-03-13 at 08:09 PM.

12-07-13, 06:34 PM	#59
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	@ privateer I have saved the texture in jpg format and changed model's mtl file according to your instructions, but everytime I open the model in MeshLab (v 1.3.2_64bit), I receive the following message: The obj file itself is still the one exported from Wings 3d, of course. What do I do wrong? __________________ _____________________ \|May the Force be with you!\| ...\/

12-03-13, 08:15 PM	#48
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Take your time Mate. Your issues have solved several things I was unsure of and could not prove. Now that they are known? I can program around them and help TDW improve his fantastic work with some real great info.

12-04-13, 12:31 PM	#50
Targor Avelany Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 1,183 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	considering that I don't have the sorter, I guess I'll just have to wait. But I will mess around with the meshlab to see if I can figure out at least the UVs. In the mean time I'll work on correcting my model encompassing your suggestions.

12-04-13, 12:56 PM	#51
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	The sorter won't fix your UV problems. All it does is re-order the information of an obj file to allow TDW's program to read it. If everything goes as I hope today I'll have a little better version ready. It will eliminate alot of the hand editing on the sorted file.

12-04-13, 01:27 PM	#52
tonschk Admiral Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,200 Downloads: 172 Uploads: 0	Thank you a lot privateer

12-04-13, 03:07 PM	#53
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I mentioned I did an import/export useing S3D to adjust the file. Here's a screen shot of both test imports to GR2. Look closely at the Vertices count. The top file was done useing S3D , the bottom useing Meshlab and then sorting the file. The top GR2 file size is 1,485 KB The bottom is 411 KB That is a major saveings and the UV's for both are correct.