Dear striking teachers in Wisconsin...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

So what it really comes down to is that you don't like teachers. That's okay, I don't like lawyers.

No Takeda, I like the respectable teachers, who actually care and realize they have an important job, not these bums in Wisconsin who are more concerned about their union than their students.Teachers who call in "sick" leaving their jobs behind to protest do not deserve to teach.Think about the students? Their education is being interrupted, they will no doubt have to make missed days up, we always had to if were out more than a day or two such as when hurricanes hit etc. I recall a pay dispute when I was in middle school, the teachers did not miss class, they protested in their off time at the school board.This was a long time ago but believe they eventually got their raise.Now Florida is different than Wisconsin, union scumbags do not run Florida.Governor Walker should just pull a Reagan and fire the teachers, use substitutes to fill in until permanent replacements can be found, perhaps it would put them in their place.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by yubba

The left got what they wanted now we are just like europe.

Not yet but we are def in the middle of battle so to speak, the left can be stopped because most American's have not bought into their class/race warfare crap so far, we shall see though.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Game, set, match.

quite the cheerleader mookie.

[mookiemookie]

Imagine that. The Koch Brothers funded Walker's campaign. Now they're putting up astroturfing websites in support of his side in this. And their interest in the situation has to do with their business interests in the state.

Color me shocked.

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...public-unions/

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.

Couldn't agree more.

[XabbaRus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by yubba
The left got what they wanted now we are just like europe.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Not yet but we are def in the middle of battle so to speak, the left can be stopped because most American's have not bought into their class/race warfare crap so far, we shall see though.

Actually as a european I resent both those comments which suggest to me how little you know or understand Europe and how its constituent states operate.

I don't agree with all powerful unions we have a similar situation with the BA cabin crew strikes so don't just assume that europe = unions out of control = socialism = bad.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Imagine that. The Koch Brothers funded Walker's campaign. Now they're putting up astroturfing websites in support of his side in this. And their interest in the situation has to do with their business interests in the state.

Color me shocked.

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...public-unions/



Couldn't agree more.

Koch Brother's, MSNBC's favorite target, they gotta have their boogeymen, of course it's two successful white businessmen they make the target but the New Black Panther Party, budget busting unions, radical islamists, aka the real bad guys, they are the victims according to the left and their propaganda agency, get real.


Not a member of the tea party but they are def not being used, just regular americans sick of the cra.The "working man/woman" has yet to realize how much the unions left leaning politicans use them by playing on their fears about "evil rich people" to gain power and money.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Quote:
Originally Posted by yubba
The left got what they wanted now we are just like europe.



Actually as a european I resent both those comments which suggest to me how little you know or understand Europe and how its constituent states operate.

I don't agree with all powerful unions we have a similar situation with the BA cabin crew strikes so don't just assume that europe = unions out of control = socialism = bad.

Resent it all you want, yubba's statement was pretty accurate but as I said, we are in a battle here in the US because most American's have not bought into the class/race warfare crap.I understand how europe works, actually would be more accurate to say how it does not work lol.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Governor Walker should just pull a Reagan and fire the teachers, use substitutes to fill in until permanent replacements can be found, perhaps it would put them in their place.

That would accomplish nothing.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I understand how europe works, actually would be more accurate to say how it does not work lol.

Would you care to elaborate, then?

[UnderseaLcpl]

I've refrained from entering this discussion until now because, despite the whole "teachers or unions or kids to blame" thing, there seems to be a general, if loose, consensus amongst many here that I am in agreement with, and I think more discussion would be beneficial. I see no reason for the teacher-hate, and I agree with the distrust of modern unions for many reasons I have described before and which I try not to repeat too often for the sake of, well, everyone here. Given the views presented, I haven't much perspective to add. However......

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Koch Brother's, MSNBC's favorite target, they gotta have their boogeymen, of course it's two successful white businessmen they make the target but the New Black Panther Party, budget busting unions, radical islamists, aka the real bad guys, they are the victims according to the left and their propaganda agency, get real.

Bubblehead, as someone who is a staunch personal defender of the value-driven right, and a staunch public supporter of the fiscal right, may I say that you are not helping our common case one iota here? I can understand being upset over what we commonly consider to be the "leftist agenda", but what you have here is not a rational argument in the least. Actually, it comes off as being extremely bigoted, even to me.

What you are doing here is targeting what you assume to be the left you are talking to, which it isn't, and then unifying them by playing the role of the ignorant, label-tossing conservative. Good conservatives believe in the value of self-determination and the strength of individuals and their ideals to advance their agenda for the good of everyone, and they have the results to prove it. Bad conservatives are like bad liberals; they probably have some good points but all they ever manage to do is make the other side hate them via generalizations.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Not a member of the tea party but they are def not being used, just regular americans sick of the cra

Actually, the Tea Party is being used....to some extent. There have already been cases of Tea-Party nominees bending to pressure from special-interest groups whilst reciting the rhetoric. That's just a natural result of the system we have, but it isn't all bad news. The fact that the Republican Party has been forced to shift its priorities and be publicly responsible for a fiscally conservatvie stance is telling of a new shift in American conservative politics. Republican representatives are increasingly beginning to parrot Tea-Party ideals. Eventually, they'll start believing them as a whole. These kinds of platform shifts have taken place before, and in a fairly regular fashion.

The strength of conservatives and individualists comes from realizing that this is the case, not just blind trust.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I understand how europe works, actually would be more accurate to say how it does not work lol.

Well you clearly demonstrate you don't.

[Aramike]

I can think of some spectacular failures that have followed in that line of planning. But it might work.

I think it has a good chance, actually, considering we are competing with MN and IL. But yeah, there's certainly some risk.

Here's a thought though on the whole benefits package, if there was a universal healthcare plan wouldn't that remove the unions need to bargain to get employees healthcare coverage from work ?

Sure it would. But there are reasons why it would be disadvantageous for those members as well.

They have an incredible healthcare plan, by the way. But even more insane are their pensions. Collective bargaining has been a fiscal disaster when it comes to benefits.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Imagine that. The Koch Brothers funded Walker's campaign. Now they're putting up astroturfing websites in support of his side in this. And their interest in the situation has to do with their business interests in the state.

Color me shocked.

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...public-unions/



Couldn't agree more.

Wait - it's wrong to have an opinion and put money in backing of that opinion?

Just in case you didn't know, unions do that all the time.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Wait - it's wrong to have an opinion and put money in backing of that opinion?

Just in case you didn't know, unions do that all the time.

You're missing the point. It's not about grassroots activism, it's not about "regular Americans" and it's ALL about protecting the pocketbooks of the Koch brothers. And the rubes are being duped into believing it isn't.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

You're missing the point. It's not about grassroots activism, it's not about "regular Americans" and it's ALL about protecting the pocketbooks of the Koch brothers. And the rubes are being duped into believing it isn't.

Funny, I've been saying the same thing about the teachers who are abandoning their students to serve the pocketbooks of the unions. So when your side does it, it's "grassroots" (even though it's already been widely reported that it's not). When the other side does it, it's astroturfing. I get it.

Mookie, why shouldn't employees be allowed to opt-out? Why shouldn't they be required to pursue union membership outside of the state payroll deduction mechanism?

Why did even FDR oppose unions for public servants?

[mookiemookie]

When people are unknowingly used as shills for big corporations, they're usually being used to fight against their own self interest. Sad, really.