TO ALL MODERATORS SH3 and SH5

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by privateer

Well, being that things like 'crutch of the moron' is being thrown out?

I'll take skwasjer's advice and bow out of here.

Anything would be better than defending the Nazi symbols. Wise choice (if a little late).

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Oh yes, stupid me, what with wikipedia being the crutch of the moron. I bow to your experience in this area.

Thanks for calling me a moron, I like personal attacks.

Wiki is as reliable as it's citations. It is not a source, but a gathering of sources. People who don't understand that are the true morons.

And like privateer I am done.

I'd have one last thing to add.
But it would get me keel hauled again.

Enjoy your perceived victory.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Highbury

Thanks for calling me a moron, I like personal attacks.

Wiki is as reliable as it's citations. It is not a source, but a gathering of sources. People who don't understand that are the true morons.

Wiki has long been known as the font of all propoganda by those who editted it last . Those who believe everything that it says are, well, liable to be brainwashed I guess. I did clearly say that the word 'crucifix' doesn't appear in that article and asked how was it relevant, but you just didn't address that point. I would be pleased if someone with as large an intellect as you would do me the favour of responding to one of my silly questions. I would forever be in your debt. How does that article relate to what I asked?

Who was it that was tortured and killed for wearing a crucifix? I seriously don't know the answer to that and if ever there was agroup that was, I'm interested to know who.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by privateer

Enjoy your perceived victory.

I don't know what you are talking about. I simply asked who it was that was tortured and killed for wearing a crucifix. I haven't got an answer yet. I would be interested to know. I know so far that it wasn't Jesus. That leaves... everyone else as a potential candidate.

Nazis are bad?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by privateer

I'd have one last thing to add.
But it would get me keel hauled again.

Richard?

Dowly,

You trying to get me whacked again?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by privateer

Dowly,

You trying to get me whacked again?

Har har har

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by privateer

Well, being that things like 'crutch of the moron' is being thrown out?

I'll take skwasjer's advice and bow out of here.

Although Nisgeis is right about the "corporate colors", his style of discussion is not what I could in accept or support.

I'll toss in some more chaos: I am a "supporter" of nazi corporate colors, though I've never been a nazi supporter. As much as I despise the regime, its feats and nazi ideology, I must honestly admit their "corporate identity" is a work of a genius - the use of svastika, the shapes and colours accompanying it. These (as well as other nazi-era symbols, like the wide eagle, uniforms and badges of newly created formations and so on) perfectly fit into the simplistic and minimalistic aesthetics of German Cross (Iron Cross shape) and make a classical example of beautiful, consistent corporate identity few other countries/corporations achieved. There are of course many exception, like for example Kriegsmarine standard, which is simply ugly and overloaded with details.

The only other example of so beautiful pieces of logo art in abundance I know of is Japan in shogunate era - the clans/families crests (coats of arms) were as simple as it is possible... I love them. You can see a few examples here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon_(crest)

I often visit "vintage market" in my city, where there are always a few stalls of old men selling all kinds of decorations, badges, awards, medals and so on. Every one of them has a few Iron Crosses and sometimes a Knight Cross oIC, many Polish and Soviet decorations and also some random other stuff. One glance at the colelction and I know - I would prefer to get an Iron Cross 2nd Class for its look than ANY other Polish/Soviet medal I saw there. They are simply UGLY when compared...

According to what Nisgeis said above I should be a Nazi. But I'm luckily not.

You was there the last time!
You weasel!

Not gonna happen now!

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

I'll toss in some more chaos: I am a "supporter" of nazi corporate colors, though I've never been a nazi supporter. As much as I despise the regime, its feats and nazi ideology, I must honestly admit their "corporate identity" is a work of a genius - the use of svastika, the shapes and colours accompanying it. These (as well as other nazi-era symbols, like the wide eagle, uniforms and badges of newly created formations and so on) perfectly fit into the simplistic and minimalistic aesthetics of German Cross (Iron Cross shape) and make a classical example of beautiful, consistent corporate identity few other countries/corporations achieved. There are of course many exception, like for example Kriegsmarine standard, which is simply ugly and overloaded with details.

Yes and that's what the Nazi symbology was all about - propoganda. The rest of the discussion about 'the swastika was a symbol of peace' means nothing at all when you are discussing the Nazis. The Nazi use of the symbol is completely different to the prior historic use of the symbol and to say that just because it was a symbol for peace and happiness at one time does not mean that in any way the Nazi symbology is mitigated or reduced by that. You know what that symbol means.

That's all.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

According to what Nisgeis said above I should be a Nazi. But I'm luckily not.

When you're running don't zig-zag you might mess up my aim.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by tater

IThe flags are considerably smaller than my (unreleased) small flags mod. They might also be signal flags.

Good point. Here is my own picture of the standard US ensign on my destroyer. Not big at all.



The following is from Section 5 of NTP13B, published in 1986, but in agreement with the practice as I knew it in 1970, and almost certainly during the Second World War. I've looked for primary wartime sources, but they seem to be scarce online.



So a battleship 'daily' flag at sea would be 5' tall and 9' 6" long, and a destroyer flag would be 3' 6" tall and 6' 7-3/4" long. I doubt that there would be much variation between different navies.

b. When cruising under wartime conditions, it is customary to fly the national ensign continuously at sea, since battle action may be regarded as always

imminent.

The full document can be found here:
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/ntp13b.pdf

[tater]

Wartime images of merchants rarely show flags. Least japanese merchies. If they do, they are tiny enough to be very hard to spot.

Ditto warships. I found an image of Ise under attack, and she was flying a very small flag off the pagoda. Against the scale of her it looked about like someone drying a shirt.

[Sailor Steve]

Well, seven feet by five feet would probably look like that against a battleship mast.

From what I could find it was standard practice for merchants to fly a flag, but probably quite small compared to what we're used to. Submariners seem to have had little problem identifying ships at sea, so it's a good question where to draw the line.