Deceased Crew Members / How will crew deaths be simulated? (threads merged)

[FIREWALL]

So they should have a morbid setting huh ?

TDK1044 says it all.

[PL_Andrev]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

AT A MINIMUM: you should be able to right click the body on the crew management screen and select "Burial at sea" option. and then the crewman simply disappears.

And what if you do not right click?
Will you swim with crew's bodies on deck?

Solution known in SH4 is good.
In this game we do not do many thinks which really happened (f.e. checking uboat position etc). In my opinion the game should concentrated on sinking enemy, no arranging funerals for killed in action.
After sinking enemy ship I put "return to course" and "time compression"...
It is no time to funerals etc etc.
This is no reality, men.

Next topic on SUBSIM:
How will captain wounds & death be simulated?

[FIREWALL]

[quote=FIREWALL;1205274]In the few books I have that mention a death while on patrol.

They were buried at sea.

The only circumstance different was while leaving port and attacked by planes they and boat turned around and returned to port with dead.

I think SH-3 had it right. Keep it simple. Toss em over the side. [/quot

Is this horse still being beaten to death ?

Ubisoft is not going to put a detailed death in a video game.

It's called A SALES KILLER.

It's always the same everytime it gets close to release date.

The Posts get stupid and more lame.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Antar

This is very interesting topic, but SH5 is a submarine simulator whose goal is to sink the enemy - no arranging funerals for killed in action.

[Sky999]

I'm amazed at some of the answers you guys are writing. I thought this was called 'subsim'?

This is a simulator, this isn't an action game.

If all you want to do is blow up ships then go and buy Battlestations Midway.

The idea of this game is to simulate the life and actions of a U-boat crew. We follow them on their journey, manage their shifts, promotions etc...

Obviously the goal of the crew is to sink as many ships as possible, but If that's all you think is needed in the game then why even bother:

- Finding the enemy.
- Plotting courses
- Moving the ship (why not let the AI do all the work?)
- starting us off in port?
- Letting us go to different rooms and the deck?
- Letting us use instruments?
- Giving us miscellaneous features?

Using the logic of:

In my opinion the game should concentrated on sinking enemy, no arranging funerals for killed in action.

...we might as well just start of right next to a convoy, have AI steering and only be able to use the periscope, If sinking ships is what a 'submarine simulator' is about.

The game rating would change if the Devs were to show crew deaths on the sub.

This is going to be what, a 12? a 15 rated game? Even 12 rated games have deaths in them, think for a second just how many games involve deaths and killing, 95% If not more do. The only time games have ratings as high as 18, which I assume is the rating you are worried about it recieving, Is if they have nudity or insane amounts of gore. SH5 will have neither I'm sure.

This will be a 15 at the worst, and that only singles out young kids who will either:

- buy it anyway, because lets be honest, assistants in shops really don't care about age restrictions.

or

- become completely bored of it because they wanted an 'action' game not a simulator.

Regardless of what you guys think, to me If a game calls itself a simulator and markets itself as one, then it better 'simulate' the experience of being on a submarine to the best of the developer's abilities.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sky999

I'm amazed at some of the answers you guys are writing. I thought this was called 'subsim'?

This is a simulator, this isn't an action game.

This is where i am in perfect agreement with you

where some players "return to course" and set maximum "Time Compression" to the next engagement...

some of us DONT do that. some of us have played out entire patrols on 1x compression - it is there under those most extreme of simulated conditions that little card games, in game books, crew interaction - and yes - even burials at sea would have done much to add to the depth of the game

Originally Posted by Sky999

If all you want to do is blow up ships then go and buy Battlestations Midway.

To this, my response is the generally accepted tone of subsim.com on this issue... that is "to each his own". If the arcade play style best represents what you are looking for in a subsim... so be it... ubi has done a great job of making these games scalable to various skill levels.

Originally Posted by Sky999

The idea of this game is to simulate the life and actions of a U-boat crew. We follow them on their journey, manage their shifts, promotions etc...

Obviously the goal of the crew is to sink as many ships as possible, but If that's all you think is needed in the game then why even bother...

...we might as well just start of right next to a convoy, have AI steering and only be able to use the periscope, If sinking ships is what a 'submarine simulator' is about.

again... I agree.

Much to the chagrin of hard core subsimmers... there are those who reflect this exact play style you have described.

one the one hand, we should embrace them as brethren skippers.

on the other hand, we should push developers to adapt the scalability of the subsims to accommodate as many player types as possible... and IMHO this DOES include the arcader all the way up to the guy who locks himself in his room, eats from cans, refuses to shave, and rubs salt on his flesh to get the fullest appreciation for the experience.

Originally Posted by Sky999

Regardless of what you guys think, to me If a game calls itself a simulator and markets itself as one, then it better 'simulate' the experience of being on a submarine to the best of the developer's abilities.

I agree again. (im starting to like this new guy)

One of the features i enjoyed about brothers in arms... you developed a sort of appreciation / friendship or fondness of certain characters in the game.

when the game killed these characters off - there is a slight sense of regret and sadness over the death of the character.

IMHO - SH5 would benifit greatly from such a similar feature.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by Sky999

I'm amazed at some of the answers you guys are writing. I thought this was called 'subsim'?

This is a simulator, this isn't an action game.

If all you want to do is blow up ships then go and buy Battlestations Midway.

The idea of this game is to simulate the life and actions of a U-boat crew. We follow them on their journey, manage their shifts, promotions etc...

Obviously the goal of the crew is to sink as many ships as possible, but If that's all you think is needed in the game then why even bother:

- Finding the enemy.
- Moving the ship (why not let the AI do all the work?)
- starting us off in port?
- Letting us go to different rooms and the deck?
- Letting us use instruments?
- Giving us miscellaneous features?

Using the logic of:




...we might as well just start of right next to a convoy, have AI steering and only be able to use the periscope, If sinking ships is what a 'submarine simulator' is about.



This is going to be what, a 12? a 15 rated game? Even 12 rated games have deaths in them, think for a second just how many games involve deaths and killing, 95% If not more do. The only time games have ratings as high as 18, which I assume is the rating you are worried about it recieving, Is if they have nudity or insane amounts of gore. SH5 will have neither I'm sure.

This will be a 15 at the worst, and that only singles out young kids who will either:

- buy it anyway, because lets be honest, assistants in shops really don't care about age restrictions.

or

- become completely bored of it because they wanted an 'action' game not a simulator.

Regardless of what you guys think, to me If a game calls itself a simulator and markets itself as one, then it better 'simulate' the experience of being on a submarine to the best of the developer's abilities.

The argument as to whether the Silent Hunter series consists of sims or a games has been discussed in many threads here at subsim. My own view is that Ubisoft markets Silent Hunter as a sim, but they deliver it as a game. Take all the impressive mods out of Silent Hunter IV, and how much of a sim is it in reality?

You could apply the criteria you speak of to something like Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulaor. In that sim, you could shoot as many bombers as you like, but you won't ever see the crew bailing out of a burning plane. You could fly low over an enemy airfield and go short sighted looking for people to shoot.

Silent Hunter V will not offer you the ability to visually interact with dead and dying crew members. If that's a deal breaker for you then don't buy the product.

[FIREWALL]

Is this another thread of " All agree to my way or I'll cry "

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Silent Hunter V will not offer you the ability to visually interact with dead and dying crew members. If that's a deal breaker for you then don't buy the product.

I dont think anyone is touting it as a "deal breaker".

however the point brought up - is an interesting one.

traditionally, when a member of the crew is killed - he simply ceases to exist within the game.

it would be a nice addition for the hard core players to have at least some sort of outlet for acknowledging the deceased crewman.

be it a simple right click with a "burial at sea" option

or be it a complex, drawn out 1x time compression affair of assembling hands on deck and conducting a very small ceremony.

dead bodies - like live bodies - take up space aboard the boat.

in SH3/4 we drive for weeks on end with a "red" dead crewman in a bunk.

but what do we see if we are now given the ability to walk past that very bunk?

nothing?

there are some very deeply envolved players that will want to see something... even if it is a folded uniform and personal effects.

[TDK1044]

Oh, I'm not against a visual reference to the fact that a crew member is now deceased. I don't even mind the right click burial at sea option, I just don't want to end up having to micro manage dead crewmen like we had to micro manage live crewmen in SHIII. That would be tedious beyond belief.

[FIREWALL]

Is their a Funeral Home Simulator ?

[Sky999]

Is this another thread of " All agree to my way or I'll cry

No

I just don't want to end up having to micro manage dead crewmen like we had to micro manage live crewmen in SHIII. That would be tedious beyond belief.

It's not that much of a problem, Ideally we wouldn't have any casualties. It can't be too much of a time consuming thing to have a quick burial cinematic/seeing crew members die during an attack. If you're like me and play using 1x only, then it's makes no difference, it only adds to the experience.

I hope we have an official answer on this because I am eager to know, regardless of whether we see crew members die and lie dead in the sub, or they just *poof* and vanish, how they will die. You have to agree that now we can walk around it would really take the immersion away to have a crew member just *poof* and he's gone.

there are some very deeply envolved players that will want to see something... even if it is a folded uniform and personal effects.

Exactly, I will never be a ww2 U boat captain, but I'm willing to spend my money to simulate it as best as possible. It's the little details that make it worth buying. I can blow something up on 99% of games out there, I'm buying this partly for the action but also for the experience of hardly breathing while diving deeper and deeper to escape depth charges, getting attached to certain crew members and feeling actual sadness when they die. It's these little things that make the game.

The original point has somewhat drifted, I originally was sayign how I wanted to see crew members 'fall over dead' to put it bluntly. I hope now we can walk around the sub, we won't suddenly see our crew members vanish into thin air. That would take you right out of your immersion zone.

[Sailor Steve]

There's already a thread on this subject, right here on the front page.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158334

[ichso]

If you're like me and play using 1x only

During the whole ... patrol ?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by ichso

During the whole ... patrol ?

Sometimes.

rarely, but sometimes yes.