GWX is turning me off to SHIII - Page 4

danlisa · 10-08-07, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

Danlisa,
can i ask a question? I seem to vaguely recall reading something about escorts searching using active sonar, but you can't actually hear it unless you have been detected. Is that right? If so, why is it this way?

If you mean within the constraints of SH3/GWX, I shall do my best to answer but may have to defer to someone who knows more.

Active Sonar - Active Sonar uses a sound transmission to locate underwater targets. In SH3/GWX this is depicted by the 'Ping' that you can hear. Now, although an escort maybe pinging, it does not mean they have actually found you, just that they are looking. It does not mean that they are aware of the presence of a UBoat either. Just that they have gone into 'search mode' (within the design of the game). The only indication that you get ingame when the enemy has found you with 'pings' is your excellent crew telling you "We are being pinged".

Passive Sonar - This method is effectively a hydrophone. It's always listening and always on. Escorts will use this method until they are triggered to enter 'search mode'. The mode will either be activated by your boat being discovered/too noisy or (IIRC) by code added to GWX, as laid out in their search routines when protecting a convoy.

Joe, I've done my best but it's not my area of knowledge really. I will pass this question on & hopefully someone more knowledgable about the game limitations will reply.

Sardaukar67 · 10-08-07, 04:49 AM

Well...I'm happy playing NYGM-mod, so it's not relevant to GWX. But, there are very few (if none) "elite" etc. enemy vessels in 1939-40 in NYGM. In GWX it might be different.
NYGM uses 16k visibility mode and I like it...since detecting a convoy 8k aways is too short distance for me to plan attacks. I like to take my time...:p

Being detected when 5-6k away in dark night and during choppy seas is not something that could happen easily. Maybe once or twice in early war, but they were rare exceptions. Kind of Das Boot.."I cannot believe they saw our periscope!"

Captain Nemo · 10-08-07, 04:58 AM

It's interesting to read the differing views here on this subject. Personally, I have managed to get as close as 600 metres to a destroyer at night (no moon) without being detected. I manoeuvred past this escort to set up a perfect stern shot on a large cargo with my last torp. However, I must add the caveat that I was at decks awash at the time and I do not use the 16km mod. I was quite proud of this manoeuvre, the only disappointment being that the torp (my last) was a dud.

Nemo

Venatore · 10-08-07, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

These search patterns must be observed before you make your attack approach.

Oct 10th 1942 Op Drumbeat, I attacked 2 convoys. Weather was reduced visiblilty & 14m/s wind/waves. Each convoy had 6 escorts, front, rear & 2 on either flank. I recieved a radar warning at about 19km range, I tracked this for 10mins to get generalised heading & ran a parallel course, until I was infront of the convoy route. I submerged before visual range, perhaps 10-11km out. From there I ran at periscope depth at 2kts until I was inside the lead escorts course. Only then did I raise my scope. 2 Large Tankers, Large Merchant & a Liberty Cargo were sunk on that run. The escorts all reacted to my presence after the first torp impact, however, they all proceeded to where they thought I'd be, which they decided was 1.5-3km from my actual position. Not once did I have to take evasive action or infact leave periscope depth. This was partly due to the Americans having poor equipment but mainly due to the weather conditions/sea state.

And that gentlemen/ladies is how we will win this war.

andylegate · 10-08-07, 05:40 AM

@Pablo

Hmmmmm....thinking back to most of my patrols where I've sat and waited quietly for a convoy, what you are saying makes sense!

Not every time do they close to right where I am, but sometimes they'll pull up short and drop back to 11 or 12 knots when they get within a 2 to 3 km radius of me.
Then again sometimes it is right on top of me, they drop speed and start pinging away! Ack!

I have gotten inside to the convoy many, many times, normally I get depth charged, but it's almost like the DD's are guessing. If I wait and tough it out, I'll normally get through without damage and the convoy will start to pass over head. The DD normally breaks off then.
That's when I surface and go "Surprise!"

I'll have time to target one or two ships, and then down I go to hold my breath again. Those DD's sure do get POed when I do that! eheheheheheh!

The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up!

Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!).

Another approach I have to convoys is different (abiet suicidal). This only works if you are NOT doing manual targeting of course, so those die-hard realists won't like this approach

.
If the weather is not too bad and my visability is not too limited, I'll get the escorts attention.
Yes I know, Andy must be insane (I think my crew thinks that!). I've found that most DD's go down with a single topedo (that is more realistic than most know. A DD's hull is actually very thin, carries a LOT of flamable fuel oil, and hundreds of HE rounds, sort of a floating bomb. My modern DDG's that I served on were even worse! Add 38 Terrier missiles and 8 Harpoon cruise missiles to the mix!).
I get submerged as soon as I know I have one of the escort's attention. I manuever until I'm bow on with her approaching. She'll start to S around when she get's within 2 km of me. I set my torp to 3 meters, Fast speed. I also hit Q and open the torpedo door. Then I wait.
When the Escort get's within 450 meters of me, I cut the torp loose. The torp almost never misses. As soon as the torp hits (or if it doesn't or duds out) I go to flank and either have my rudder to Hard to Port or Starbord depending on what the Escort is doing.
Did I mention that just before this I set one of my stern torps for the same thing?
That way if I missed, as I dodge out of the way, I straighten my rudder, slew the scope around aft and reaquire the escort, as soon as she's over 350 meters away, I'll cut loose the stern torpedo (if needed. If the Escort was hit, she's more than likely going down).
Once you got rid of her, I make my course towards the convoy at a nice speed of 4 knots. Yes, 4 knots. That's because the other 3 escorts are going to be on their way.
I use the same approach for each one of them. When I'm done, and if I was lucky, I've now got an unescorted Convoy, and I only used up 4 torps. Since I use a Type IX, that's good enough for me.
The neat thing is, you can turn the manual targeting back on if you want and go after the convoy that way. But you shouldn't use it with my above approach, else you'll be one dead u-boat commander!

That approach also has some rush for me too! If the torps a dud, well, I can feel my heart leap up into my throat! AAAAAHHHHG! Get Benard out of the torpedo room!

In anycase, I'm happy with GWX. If they've got the DD's harder, then they've got them harder. I could sit here and whine about it, but then if you think about it, I've got an unfair advantage over those poor DD's if I use automatic targeting, the F12 key to look above at what is happening, etc. They don't get those options!

danlisa · 10-08-07, 06:05 AM

At the end of the day, if you want realistic, build a time machine, travel back to 1939, defect to Germany and become a U-Boat commander.

Now, within the limits of the game code, one must balance the relative easiness of the Happy Times with the real difficulty of 1944-45. This is just a headache waiting to happen and has been attempted by every mod team ever to adjust the sensor values of the AI. This particular area of SH3 has been debated & tweaked since it's release and anyone could argue points for any way of doing things.

However, the AI sensors in GWX may be hard but they are not unbeatable and certainly are not unbelievable at any point in the war.

There are many factors that are changeable within the sensor files however, changing a single value by +/-0.1 could have drastic effect elsewhere in the game. At the moment GWX has a good balance. For example, you may find in 1939, a really n00bish escort but the next day you may find an elite escort and get sunk. It happened like this in RL.

The sensors are also like they are for another reason. GWX has always strived to reduce the amount of tonnage/renown that can be sunk/awarded averaged across patrols. The easiest way was to improve the AI detection routines, a sort of '2 birds with one stone' choice. Infact, since the advent of GWX 1.0 reported tonnages/renown award (when playing as one should) has dropped considerably. At the moment, 50000 tons is an excellent score, whereas 15000 - 30000 should be the norm.

Lastly, just to clarify. This is a game. It is held back by the original coding. If it wasn't you could bet that someone on the GWX team, would at this moment be calculating whether a butterfly flapping it's wings in Timbuktu would cause the approaching DD to detect you.

HunterICX · 10-08-07, 06:24 AM

What the heck?

its a bloody Simulator
the only thing that it doesnt simulate YET
is HUMAN ERROR'S and its Lack in behaviour.

its still simple AI behaviour, well in simple terms ofcourse

, it still follows some basic protocols , but the sensors are like..lets say that you making a piramid out of a stack of cards.
1 mistake can mess everything up.
it aint a easy task to do,
but keep in mind it does work, but the situation has to be suited for the sensors to work properly
I have been in situation when I spotted a DD 500 meters on the right of me. not shooting nor searching me
1 , it was pitch black , just barely made out the shape of the DD
2 , I didnt do anything (attacked a ship) , so his sensors where probally Passive.
well, still as a simulator I holded my breath seeying that sneaky bastard 500 meters away from me (or was I the sneaky bastard?

)

I could crawl in moderate sea wheater, night, with some fog about 1000 meters from a convoy on the surface in early 40, but it took me darn long time before I got that close. I didnt use TC, and was going very slow.

Petsman · 10-08-07, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andylegate

@Pablo

Hmmmmm....thinking back to most of my patrols where I've sat and waited quietly for a convoy, what you are saying makes sense!

Not every time do they close to right where I am, but sometimes they'll pull up short and drop back to 11 or 12 knots when they get within a 2 to 3 km radius of me.
Then again sometimes it is right on top of me, they drop speed and start pinging away! Ack!

I have gotten inside to the convoy many, many times, normally I get depth charged, but it's almost like the DD's are guessing. If I wait and tough it out, I'll normally get through without damage and the convoy will start to pass over head. The DD normally breaks off then.
That's when I surface and go "Surprise!"

I'll have time to target one or two ships, and then down I go to hold my breath again. Those DD's sure do get POed when I do that! eheheheheheh!

The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up!

Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!).

Another approach I have to convoys is different (abiet suicidal). This only works if you are NOT doing manual targeting of course, so those die-hard realists won't like this approach

.
If the weather is not too bad and my visability is not too limited, I'll get the escorts attention.
Yes I know, Andy must be insane (I think my crew thinks that!). I've found that most DD's go down with a single topedo (that is more realistic than most know. A DD's hull is actually very thin, carries a LOT of flamable fuel oil, and hundreds of HE rounds, sort of a floating bomb. My modern DDG's that I served on were even worse! Add 38 Terrier missiles and 8 Harpoon cruise missiles to the mix!).
I get submerged as soon as I know I have one of the escort's attention. I manuever until I'm bow on with her approaching. She'll start to S around when she get's within 2 km of me. I set my torp to 3 meters, Fast speed. I also hit Q and open the torpedo door. Then I wait.
When the Escort get's within 450 meters of me, I cut the torp loose. The torp almost never misses. As soon as the torp hits (or if it doesn't or duds out) I go to flank and either have my rudder to Hard to Port or Starbord depending on what the Escort is doing.
Did I mention that just before this I set one of my stern torps for the same thing?
That way if I missed, as I dodge out of the way, I straighten my rudder, slew the scope around aft and reaquire the escort, as soon as she's over 350 meters away, I'll cut loose the stern torpedo (if needed. If the Escort was hit, she's more than likely going down).
Once you got rid of her, I make my course towards the convoy at a nice speed of 4 knots. Yes, 4 knots. That's because the other 3 escorts are going to be on their way.
I use the same approach for each one of them. When I'm done, and if I was lucky, I've now got an unescorted Convoy, and I only used up 4 torps. Since I use a Type IX, that's good enough for me.
The neat thing is, you can turn the manual targeting back on if you want and go after the convoy that way. But you shouldn't use it with my above approach, else you'll be one dead u-boat commander!

That approach also has some rush for me too! If the torps a dud, well, I can feel my heart leap up into my throat! AAAAAHHHHG! Get Benard out of the torpedo room!

In anycase, I'm happy with GWX. If they've got the DD's harder, then they've got them harder. I could sit here and whine about it, but then if you think about it, I've got an unfair advantage over those poor DD's if I use automatic targeting, the F12 key to look above at what is happening, etc. They don't get those options!

Actually just one thing, even with manual targeting i can shoot the DD. Because if it comes at straight at you then AOB is 0 and range and speed doesnt matter. So you recon it point the optics(so you know the bearing)

at him and fire!.

Pablo · 10-08-07, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andylegate

@Pablo

Hmmmmm....thinking back to most of my patrols where I've sat and waited quietly for a convoy, what you are saying makes sense!

Not every time do they close to right where I am, but sometimes they'll pull up short and drop back to 11 or 12 knots when they get within a 2 to 3 km radius of me.
Then again sometimes it is right on top of me, they drop speed and start pinging away! Ack!

Hi!

I'll add a note in the GWX Manual (in the section on "How to survive Antisubmarine Warfare) that mentions the random "activation" of convoy escorts.

Quote:

The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up!

Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!).

In what month and year did this happen, and do you know what kind of destroyers were involved?

Personally, I have been able to motor along on the surface about 4-5 km from a convoy's nearest escorts in rough seas at night without being bothered at all, even when the destroyers had radar, so I suspect you were found by the random sensor improvement factor added on to an elite crew (which was also assigned randomly to that ship). The elite crew would not have been enough to detect you, but the random detection improvement may have done it.

Pablo

The Munster · 10-08-07, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d@rk51d3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

FWIW I have observed ASW ships give a "false start" at fairly long range and zoom around as if they have a contact, only to settle back down into their normal routine several minutes later.

And doesn't that get the heart pounding.

I've also come across this sort of behaviour from Flower Corvettes and yes, it does get the heart pounding !

bigboywooly · 10-08-07, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

Agreed.

Everybody is a bloody expert.

"Too much of this.... too much of that.... my porridge is cold."

Frag the critics.

andylegate puts forward a rational comment based on more real life experience than anyone in the GWX team has, and you dismiss him (and indeed anyone with a different POV to yours) with this condescending drivel?

You really aren't doing yourself any good with your snippy outbursts lately...

Too many late nights Jaesen ?
My post was to WS not andylegate and by quoting I guess so was the Kpts

andylegate · 10-08-07, 10:48 AM

@Pablo

Quote:

Quote:
The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up!

Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!).

In what month and year did this happen, and do you know what kind of destroyers were involved?

Mmmmmm....let's see. Trying to rattle my rusty, salty brain here.......
Lets see... December 1939 for the night and again around Feb 1940

I seem to remember that the ones that open fire on me at night from extreme range were: Flower Corvette's and I believe Blackswans.

The ones that seem to suddenly leave the convoy and come at me while I'm submerged always seemed to be the C&D class. This seems to be random any time from 1939 until after 1940. Supporting what you're saying.
Then after 1940, starting in 1941, theire are always more escorts and they spot you easy, but of course I'd expect this during this time and later.

I have noticed one thing. The V&W guys act dumb. Rather for me, everyone that I can remember coming across acted like they had NO idea what they were doing. I guess the random thing for them never worked! I always feel sorry for a V&W when I see it, as I seem to take it out with easy. Then again, with that attitude, watch the next one I run across sink me dead!

V&W Capt.: "Right boys. There's the bugger now. Let's get revenge shall we?"

JScones · 10-08-07, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Too many late nights Jaesen ?
My post was to WS not andylegate and by quoting I guess so was the Kpts

:rotfl: My point exactly.

Think about it.

Then compare his response to the responses of some of the other GWX team members.

Methinks it's someone else who is the one having too many late nights, not me.

robj250 · 10-08-07, 11:51 AM

That's why I no longer play GWX, thanks you!

PapaG39 · 10-08-07, 12:52 PM

Well, this has turned out to be a very informative thread.

Several of my concerns have been answered. Being new, I knew it had to be with my lack of knowledge of why those DD's all of a sudden head straight for me...
A random search pattern... makes sense to me.

This game is very complex and I am ***NOT***a navy type. Just learning who does what and when is very difficult to grasp without some training.

In Iron coffins the man spent months just learning how to shoot correctly and accurately.

Danlisa, your explanation on attacking the convoy was excellent. I will put that into practice the next time that I have knowledge of a nearby convoy.
so far my convoy attacks have been very poor.
This North Sea shallow water doesn't help things either...lol..

10-08-07, 04:58 AM	#48
Captain Nemo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 1,144 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	It's interesting to read the differing views here on this subject. Personally, I have managed to get as close as 600 metres to a destroyer at night (no moon) without being detected. I manoeuvred past this escort to set up a perfect stern shot on a large cargo with my last torp. However, I must add the caveat that I was at decks awash at the time and I do not use the 16km mod. I was quite proud of this manoeuvre, the only disappointment being that the torp (my last) was a dud. Nemo __________________ "I'm afraid there is no disguising the fact that King's obsession with the Pacific and the Battle of Washington cost us dear in the Battle of the Atlantic". Sir John Slessor GCB, DSO, MC, DL AOC-in-C Coastal Command RAF ___________________________________________

10-08-07, 05:40 AM	#50
andylegate Medic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SC, USA Posts: 168 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	@Pablo Hmmmmm....thinking back to most of my patrols where I've sat and waited quietly for a convoy, what you are saying makes sense! Not every time do they close to right where I am, but sometimes they'll pull up short and drop back to 11 or 12 knots when they get within a 2 to 3 km radius of me. Then again sometimes it is right on top of me, they drop speed and start pinging away! Ack! I have gotten inside to the convoy many, many times, normally I get depth charged, but it's almost like the DD's are guessing. If I wait and tough it out, I'll normally get through without damage and the convoy will start to pass over head. The DD normally breaks off then. That's when I surface and go "Surprise!" I'll have time to target one or two ships, and then down I go to hold my breath again. Those DD's sure do get POed when I do that! eheheheheheh! The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up! Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!). Another approach I have to convoys is different (abiet suicidal). This only works if you are NOT doing manual targeting of course, so those die-hard realists won't like this approach . If the weather is not too bad and my visability is not too limited, I'll get the escorts attention. Yes I know, Andy must be insane (I think my crew thinks that!). I've found that most DD's go down with a single topedo (that is more realistic than most know. A DD's hull is actually very thin, carries a LOT of flamable fuel oil, and hundreds of HE rounds, sort of a floating bomb. My modern DDG's that I served on were even worse! Add 38 Terrier missiles and 8 Harpoon cruise missiles to the mix!). I get submerged as soon as I know I have one of the escort's attention. I manuever until I'm bow on with her approaching. She'll start to S around when she get's within 2 km of me. I set my torp to 3 meters, Fast speed. I also hit Q and open the torpedo door. Then I wait. When the Escort get's within 450 meters of me, I cut the torp loose. The torp almost never misses. As soon as the torp hits (or if it doesn't or duds out) I go to flank and either have my rudder to Hard to Port or Starbord depending on what the Escort is doing. Did I mention that just before this I set one of my stern torps for the same thing? That way if I missed, as I dodge out of the way, I straighten my rudder, slew the scope around aft and reaquire the escort, as soon as she's over 350 meters away, I'll cut loose the stern torpedo (if needed. If the Escort was hit, she's more than likely going down). Once you got rid of her, I make my course towards the convoy at a nice speed of 4 knots. Yes, 4 knots. That's because the other 3 escorts are going to be on their way. I use the same approach for each one of them. When I'm done, and if I was lucky, I've now got an unescorted Convoy, and I only used up 4 torps. Since I use a Type IX, that's good enough for me. The neat thing is, you can turn the manual targeting back on if you want and go after the convoy that way. But you shouldn't use it with my above approach, else you'll be one dead u-boat commander! That approach also has some rush for me too! If the torps a dud, well, I can feel my heart leap up into my throat! AAAAAHHHHG! Get Benard out of the torpedo room! In anycase, I'm happy with GWX. If they've got the DD's harder, then they've got them harder. I could sit here and whine about it, but then if you think about it, I've got an unfair advantage over those poor DD's if I use automatic targeting, the F12 key to look above at what is happening, etc. They don't get those options! __________________ My Real Life Navy Brag Page Below http://www1.freewebs.com/andylegate/ Last edited by andylegate; 10-08-07 at 06:36 AM.

10-08-07, 06:05 AM	#51
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	At the end of the day, if you want realistic, build a time machine, travel back to 1939, defect to Germany and become a U-Boat commander. Now, within the limits of the game code, one must balance the relative easiness of the Happy Times with the real difficulty of 1944-45. This is just a headache waiting to happen and has been attempted by every mod team ever to adjust the sensor values of the AI. This particular area of SH3 has been debated & tweaked since it's release and anyone could argue points for any way of doing things. However, the AI sensors in GWX may be hard but they are not unbeatable and certainly are not unbelievable at any point in the war. There are many factors that are changeable within the sensor files however, changing a single value by +/-0.1 could have drastic effect elsewhere in the game. At the moment GWX has a good balance. For example, you may find in 1939, a really n00bish escort but the next day you may find an elite escort and get sunk. It happened like this in RL. The sensors are also like they are for another reason. GWX has always strived to reduce the amount of tonnage/renown that can be sunk/awarded averaged across patrols. The easiest way was to improve the AI detection routines, a sort of '2 birds with one stone' choice. Infact, since the advent of GWX 1.0 reported tonnages/renown award (when playing as one should) has dropped considerably. At the moment, 50000 tons is an excellent score, whereas 15000 - 30000 should be the norm. Lastly, just to clarify. This is a game. It is held back by the original coding. If it wasn't you could bet that someone on the GWX team, would at this moment be calculating whether a butterfly flapping it's wings in Timbuktu would cause the approaching DD to detect you. __________________

10-08-07, 06:24 AM	#52
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	What the heck? its a bloody Simulator the only thing that it doesnt simulate YET is HUMAN ERROR'S and its Lack in behaviour. its still simple AI behaviour, well in simple terms ofcourse , it still follows some basic protocols , but the sensors are like..lets say that you making a piramid out of a stack of cards. 1 mistake can mess everything up. it aint a easy task to do, but keep in mind it does work, but the situation has to be suited for the sensors to work properly I have been in situation when I spotted a DD 500 meters on the right of me. not shooting nor searching me 1 , it was pitch black , just barely made out the shape of the DD 2 , I didnt do anything (attacked a ship) , so his sensors where probally Passive. well, still as a simulator I holded my breath seeying that sneaky bastard 500 meters away from me (or was I the sneaky bastard? ) I could crawl in moderate sea wheater, night, with some fog about 1000 meters from a convoy on the surface in early 40, but it took me darn long time before I got that close. I didnt use TC, and was going very slow. __________________ Last edited by HunterICX; 10-08-07 at 06:51 AM.

10-08-07, 04:49 AM	#47
Sardaukar67 Machinist's Mate Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 126 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Well...I'm happy playing NYGM-mod, so it's not relevant to GWX. But, there are very few (if none) "elite" etc. enemy vessels in 1939-40 in NYGM. In GWX it might be different. NYGM uses 16k visibility mode and I like it...since detecting a convoy 8k aways is too short distance for me to plan attacks. I like to take my time...:p Being detected when 5-6k away in dark night and during choppy seas is not something that could happen easily. Maybe once or twice in early war, but they were rare exceptions. Kind of Das Boot.."I cannot believe they saw our periscope!"

10-08-07, 11:51 AM	#59
robj250 Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Hardy, BC, Canada 75 yo with M.S. & C.O.P.D. & heart problems Posts: 1,930 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	That's why I no longer play GWX, thanks you!

10-08-07, 12:52 PM	#60
PapaG39 Frogman Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 297 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Well, this has turned out to be a very informative thread. Several of my concerns have been answered. Being new, I knew it had to be with my lack of knowledge of why those DD's all of a sudden head straight for me... A random search pattern... makes sense to me. This game is very complex and I am *NOT*a navy type. Just learning who does what and when is very difficult to grasp without some training. In Iron coffins the man spent months just learning how to shoot correctly and accurately. Danlisa, your explanation on attacking the convoy was excellent. I will put that into practice the next time that I have knowledge of a nearby convoy. so far my convoy attacks have been very poor. This North Sea shallow water doesn't help things either...lol..