GWX is turning me off to SHIII

WilhelmSchulz. · 10-07-07, 01:06 PM

GWX is great dont get me wrong. But there is one aspect that the devs added that is TOTALY un realistic.

Here is a senario.

Time: around 24:00
Sea conditions: Modaret chop
Pitch black. New Moon

Convoy is spoted at about 5-6,000 meters. I barly am able to turn to track the convoy and match speed before shells are falling around me! The culprit is a Flower about 6,000 meters away! I can barely see him!

Now dose that sound realistic? No and its just as bad in day light. I cant have a visual on the convoy or Ill get dected. In 1939 I have to play as if it was 1945.

And the fact that I cant realy wage a convoy battle has realy turned me off to SHIII.

Dose anyone have a mod/file that reduces the visal range of the escorts/ships?

bigboywooly · 10-07-07, 01:53 PM

You can always reload stock

slow_n_ez · 10-07-07, 02:00 PM

Maybe you using the 16 km atmospher option ? lets you see things farther away .. but also can be seen easier too ..........

Try this ........ http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106453

A mod by Mush Martin ... load her up and kick some

andylegate · 10-07-07, 02:02 PM

He does have a point.

Sorry, but as a Fire Controlman in the real navy, I'm here to tell you that you'd have a hell of a time seeing a type II or VII sub from 6 km away, at night, no moon, with your eyes or normal binoculars.

Yes, you might pick the sub up on sonar, but that will give you a bearing only. You might get a LITTLE bit of phospherous glow from the sea water lapping at the hull of the sub. But you will have darn little information on range, and any destroyer captain would be INSANE to open fire up on something that he's not sure about!

Radar did change a lot of that, but, as he indicated it's 1939.

I've actually had them open up on me from that distance, under the same conditions, with my engines at all stop, and after my many, many years of experience of actually dealing with weapons systems in the US Navy, my first thought was: "No effing way!"
Change it to daytime, with a sea state of 0, and some very alert watch standers on the ship, and I'll give it to you.
But at night, like that with choppy seas? 3 miles away? with a low profile like that?
Not unless one of my watchstanders on the tower lit up a cigarette, and then I'd have him shot on the spot!

Sorry guys, but this is one area that is unrealistic. And you don't have to take my word for it. My father spent 30 years in the navy, and when I showed him, he said "Bull ****! Ain't no way!"

KrvKpt. Falke · 10-07-07, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilhelmSchulz.

Convoy is spoted at about 5-6,000 meters

5-6 km?

Are you sure it wasnt a single accident?
This has happen to me only once, in 2005, when i was playing sh3 without any mods. The weather was very bad and i literally woke up in the middle of a convoy... ahh memories...

Edit: OR - do you mean THEy spotted YOU at 5-6 km?

PapaG39 · 10-07-07, 02:17 PM

The same thing happen to me just a few days ago. I'm just now going into 1940 so it had to have been around July of 1939 in the North Sea area.

I'm sitting there on the surface (twilight) being swallowed by the swells trying to see the convoy at 5000m or so when "boom" the bugger starts firing at me. I could not even see him he was so far away.
I do have the GWX & 16 mod installed.

i_b_spectre · 10-07-07, 02:22 PM

I'm new to SH3/GWX and don't have a great deal of experience, having just completed only my third war patrol in 1939. However, my experience so far is considerably different than WilhelmShutlz's. I've enabled most all the mods that came with GWX (excluding the French fix) and am running SH3 Commander. The 16k visibility mod seems to work well for me in that my watch crew has been able spot ships before they get close enough to attack me. were they armed. I've got SH3 Commander setup to allow x1024 time compression (TC) max, which drops to x8 whenever a potential threat is detected. WilhelmShultz didn't indicate if he's using SH3 Commander, but I strongly recommend it. It can make all the difference in the world in survival and success versus the alternative, particularly if you're using TC.

I had an instance last evening where I couldn't get a visual on a blacked-out transport, but my crew had detected him...and he had detected me, judging from the blinding spotlight illuminating my boat. Of course that made the deck gun crew have to wear sunglasses at night

but there was no doubt in which direction they needed to aim and fire. Result: first of four kills on patrol #3. So, visibility and detection in GWX seems to work both ways, but I haven't found it to be inequitably so.

Dowly · 10-07-07, 02:23 PM

While on my last WaW patrol, I was ordered to mine the port of Southend. I made my approach & mine laying on surface, during night, with escorts at 2-4kms away without being spotted.

Bosk · 10-07-07, 02:46 PM

I've noticed similar things with GWX.

It's a wonderful mod, but the AI is tuned too heavily in favor of the enemy. For a mod that boasts ultimate realism it seems pretty strange.

From everything I've read about uboats 1939 was a Happy Time, yet in GWX the escorts can sniff you out remarkably easily- which is not to say their depth charges will actually find you, but the ease at which they detect you is nuts. I guess it forces you into using more sound techniques and strategies to attack convoys, but in the end I find it unecessarily frustrating.

In particular, what annoys me is how easily a destroyer will spot my periscope or pick me up with hydrophones before I've even attacked a convoy. They have no reason to be so alert to the presence of a submarine unless they already know there is one lurking around.
I could understand that sort of behavior in 1943+ but in 1939?

Why doesn't the GWX team bring out some kind of Easier AI optional mod that can be installed with JGSME?
Seems to me that would make the game more enjoyable for a lot of people.

KeptinCranky · 10-07-07, 03:04 PM

umm, I've done several night-time surface attacks on convoys without such issues, it was probably bad luck running into an experienced crew on that Flower, I don't think one example says it all, I haven't found GWX impossible at all, yes it's more difficult but in 1939 an 1940 I can mostly roam and hunt with impunity unless I get stoopid

or unlucky

But these things happen, variety is the spice of life, next time you'll get see them before they see you and then it's your party....

Neptune#1 · 10-07-07, 03:18 PM

One thing I have noticed is that in almost all single missions ships are on you before you even have a chance to get your own bearings let alone fire a torpedo at one and seems no matter what you do you are doomed right from the start shure is not much fun to me.

Morts · 10-07-07, 03:23 PM

oh comeone
GWX is not that hard

The Munster · 10-07-07, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neptune#1

One thing I have noticed is that in almost all single missions ships are on you before you even have a chance to get your own bearings let alone fire a torpedo at one and seems no matter what you do you are doomed right from the start shure is not much fun to me.

Have you tried the single mission, 'Happy Times' ? That one gives you time to work out your plan of attack etc.

Jimbuna · 10-07-07, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

You can always reload stock

I think that might be exactly what he is contemplating :hmm:

Quote:

Have you tried the single mission, 'Happy Times' ? That one gives you time to work out your plan of attack etc.

There are a few like that

bigboywooly · 10-07-07, 04:27 PM

It all depends how you play
There are plenty of tales on here of convoy attacks surfaced in 40 and before
Plenty of ppl make it to 43
Not many beyond which is historical

Remember this about the happy times
In Sept 39 Germany had 57 uboats capable of going to sea
By the end of the year 9 of them were sunk

Roughly 1 in 6 - in 3 months

Wasnt so happy for those 9 crews was it ?

No one claims GWX to be Uber historical
We try to be accurate BUT some things are limited by the game engine
Its not real life but a game

How many of you would still be playing if you had to carry out a 2 month patrol and didnt see a ship
Let alone sink one

Tis a trade off

GWX is just one mod
Dont like it then uninstall and play another or create your own

Tis simple really
No one mod can please everyone or suit how ppl want to play

Meh

10-07-07, 01:53 PM	#2
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	You can always reload stock __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-07-07, 02:02 PM	#4
andylegate Medic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SC, USA Posts: 168 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	He does have a point. Sorry, but as a Fire Controlman in the real navy, I'm here to tell you that you'd have a hell of a time seeing a type II or VII sub from 6 km away, at night, no moon, with your eyes or normal binoculars. Yes, you might pick the sub up on sonar, but that will give you a bearing only. You might get a LITTLE bit of phospherous glow from the sea water lapping at the hull of the sub. But you will have darn little information on range, and any destroyer captain would be INSANE to open fire up on something that he's not sure about! Radar did change a lot of that, but, as he indicated it's 1939. I've actually had them open up on me from that distance, under the same conditions, with my engines at all stop, and after my many, many years of experience of actually dealing with weapons systems in the US Navy, my first thought was: "No effing way!" Change it to daytime, with a sea state of 0, and some very alert watch standers on the ship, and I'll give it to you. But at night, like that with choppy seas? 3 miles away? with a low profile like that? Not unless one of my watchstanders on the tower lit up a cigarette, and then I'd have him shot on the spot! Sorry guys, but this is one area that is unrealistic. And you don't have to take my word for it. My father spent 30 years in the navy, and when I showed him, he said "Bull ****! Ain't no way!" __________________ My Real Life Navy Brag Page Below http://www1.freewebs.com/andylegate/

10-07-07, 02:22 PM	#7
i_b_spectre Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 205 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	New to GWX I'm new to SH3/GWX and don't have a great deal of experience, having just completed only my third war patrol in 1939. However, my experience so far is considerably different than WilhelmShutlz's. I've enabled most all the mods that came with GWX (excluding the French fix) and am running SH3 Commander. The 16k visibility mod seems to work well for me in that my watch crew has been able spot ships before they get close enough to attack me. were they armed. I've got SH3 Commander setup to allow x1024 time compression (TC) max, which drops to x8 whenever a potential threat is detected. WilhelmShultz didn't indicate if he's using SH3 Commander, but I strongly recommend it. It can make all the difference in the world in survival and success versus the alternative, particularly if you're using TC. I had an instance last evening where I couldn't get a visual on a blacked-out transport, but my crew had detected him...and he had detected me, judging from the blinding spotlight illuminating my boat. Of course that made the deck gun crew have to wear sunglasses at night but there was no doubt in which direction they needed to aim and fire. Result: first of four kills on patrol #3. So, visibility and detection in GWX seems to work both ways, but I haven't found it to be inequitably so. __________________ Spectre

10-07-07, 02:46 PM	#9
Bosk Watch Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ballarat, Australia. Posts: 28 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I've noticed similar things with GWX. It's a wonderful mod, but the AI is tuned too heavily in favor of the enemy. For a mod that boasts ultimate realism it seems pretty strange. From everything I've read about uboats 1939 was a Happy Time, yet in GWX the escorts can sniff you out remarkably easily- which is not to say their depth charges will actually find you, but the ease at which they detect you is nuts. I guess it forces you into using more sound techniques and strategies to attack convoys, but in the end I find it unecessarily frustrating. In particular, what annoys me is how easily a destroyer will spot my periscope or pick me up with hydrophones before I've even attacked a convoy. They have no reason to be so alert to the presence of a submarine unless they already know there is one lurking around. I could understand that sort of behavior in 1943+ but in 1939? Why doesn't the GWX team bring out some kind of Easier AI optional mod that can be installed with JGSME? Seems to me that would make the game more enjoyable for a lot of people. __________________ "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."-W. Churchill

10-07-07, 04:27 PM	#15
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	It all depends how you play There are plenty of tales on here of convoy attacks surfaced in 40 and before Plenty of ppl make it to 43 Not many beyond which is historical Remember this about the happy times In Sept 39 Germany had 57 uboats capable of going to sea By the end of the year 9 of them were sunk Roughly 1 in 6 - in 3 months Wasnt so happy for those 9 crews was it ? No one claims GWX to be Uber historical We try to be accurate BUT some things are limited by the game engine Its not real life but a game How many of you would still be playing if you had to carry out a 2 month patrol and didnt see a ship Let alone sink one Tis a trade off GWX is just one mod Dont like it then uninstall and play another or create your own Tis simple really No one mod can please everyone or suit how ppl want to play Meh __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-07-07, 01:06 PM	#1
WilhelmSchulz. The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Virgina Beach Posts: 1,301 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	GWX is turning me off to SHIII GWX is great dont get me wrong. But there is one aspect that the devs added that is TOTALY un realistic. Here is a senario. Time: around 24:00 Sea conditions: Modaret chop Pitch black. New Moon Convoy is spoted at about 5-6,000 meters. I barly am able to turn to track the convoy and match speed before shells are falling around me! The culprit is a Flower about 6,000 meters away! I can barely see him! Now dose that sound realistic? No and its just as bad in day light. I cant have a visual on the convoy or Ill get dected. In 1939 I have to play as if it was 1945. And the fact that I cant realy wage a convoy battle has realy turned me off to SHIII. Dose anyone have a mod/file that reduces the visal range of the escorts/ships? __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink… others require our assistance."

10-07-07, 02:00 PM	#3
slow_n_ez Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Astoria , Oregon Posts: 246 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Maybe you using the 16 km atmospher option ? lets you see things farther away .. but also can be seen easier too .......... Try this ........ http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106453 A mod by Mush Martin ... load her up and kick some

10-07-07, 02:17 PM	#6
PapaG39 Frogman Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 297 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	The same thing happen to me just a few days ago. I'm just now going into 1940 so it had to have been around July of 1939 in the North Sea area. I'm sitting there on the surface (twilight) being swallowed by the swells trying to see the convoy at 5000m or so when "boom" the bugger starts firing at me. I could not even see him he was so far away. I do have the GWX & 16 mod installed.

10-07-07, 02:23 PM	#8
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	While on my last WaW patrol, I was ordered to mine the port of Southend. I made my approach & mine laying on surface, during night, with escorts at 2-4kms away without being spotted.

10-07-07, 03:04 PM	#10
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	umm, I've done several night-time surface attacks on convoys without such issues, it was probably bad luck running into an experienced crew on that Flower, I don't think one example says it all, I haven't found GWX impossible at all, yes it's more difficult but in 1939 an 1940 I can mostly roam and hunt with impunity unless I get stoopid or unlucky But these things happen, variety is the spice of life, next time you'll get see them before they see you and then it's your party....

10-07-07, 03:18 PM	#11
Neptune#1 Bosun Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Racine WI Posts: 64 Downloads: 112 Uploads: 0	One thing I have noticed is that in almost all single missions ships are on you before you even have a chance to get your own bearings let alone fire a torpedo at one and seems no matter what you do you are doomed right from the start shure is not much fun to me.

10-07-07, 03:23 PM	#12
Morts Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,395 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	oh comeone GWX is not that hard