REL- Additional Visual nodes for GWX

[Lanzfeld]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

edit:
yeah, all you lose is thermal layers.

He'll probably tell you not to use it Dont expect any GWX dev team support for anything i do - especially if it uses something from NYGM. Use anything i post at your own descretion, and complain to me if it breaks something.

Roger that

I was just wondering if this kinda highlights something that the GWX team may want to fix.

[Ducimus]

Im gonna grab NYGM 2.0 again and see if they have SH3 commander files for this file in there - probably sometime tommrrow. Or if your bored you can check yourself if you have the bandwidth. I should contact DTB, but i figure he's busy and i hate being a bother to people.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

Roger that

I was just wondering if this kinda highlights something that the GWX team may want to fix.

I want mate. But GWX is not only me, it´s a team.

Rubini.

[Ducimus]

Just FYI, ive thought about it, i think im going to limit the F_Visual to 17,000 meters, and make the appropriate change in the sim.cfg file as well. Several reasons.

1.) Detection is entirely different under this model and far more sensitve, so hard limits on max range need to be in place.

2.)Gunnery beyond of visual range (16KM) doesnt really *need* to exist. But captial ships should have that ability. So i figure 1KM beyond visual range is more then enough, and gives you a 1KM window to either get out of dodge or try and spot your attacker.

[Ducimus]

Ok, FIXED!


changlog:

- I found about 8 or 9 entries where i had erroniously left the F_visual assigned to ships that shoulldnt have them. These have been removed.

- Changed AI cannons max firing range to from 31,000 meters to 18,000 meters in the sim.cfg file.

-changed F_visual node from 25,000 meters to 17,000 meters.

-changed M_visual node from 8,000 meters to 9000 meters.

-Changed AI_visual node from 12,000 meters to 13,000 meters.

- included updated randomized_events.cfg for SH3 commander with the thermal layers section remarked out.

- updated readme.

[NiKuTa]

I have one question ? Why did you remove a thermal layers ???

[Ducimus]

Because i dont have the hex offsets to properly write them in. This AI_sensor.dat is totally different then the one SH3 commander expects.

[NiKuTa]

- so if you use a thermal layers you may have CTD ?

But thermal layers will return someday ??

BTW nice mod

[Ducimus]

But thermal layers will return someday ??

Yeah.
Im going to try and find an old file that was written for this purpose. Failing that, ill try using the offsets in the tweakfile (included in this mod) and try writing it in. I have to be honest though, its not very high on my priority list - i mean, personally, i never used this feature in SH3 commander, but i know others do, so ill get the file at some point.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

Thanks Ducimus. So to recap...we will only lose the random thermal layers and that is all?

Also....To Kpt. Lehmann,

What do you think of this mod? I would just like your opinion. Do you think that maybe the merchants see to well in GWX 1.02 and it makes nighttime surface attacks to hard in 1940?

In the Kpt's absence let me point out that he already *has* commented - check page 1 of this thread. I doubt his views have changed.

Now as you have made this obviously goading comment, let me say that I agree with what the Kpt has said as it more aligns to my perception of reality. But I wasn't around in WWII to experience things first hand, so I rely on my RL experiences and what I've read.

And that's the beauty of choice - you (and others) can use Ducimus's mod to quench your perception of reality and I (and others) can continue to use GWX to quench mine.

Win-win for everyone. And kudos to Ducimus for providing that choice. That's all that matters.

BTW, look at this photo...



It's taken from Fort Scratchley, Newcastle, Australia (where I grew up) looking towards Anna Bay ~30kms away (it's from Wikipedia as I am too lazy to scan my own photos). The piece of land at the extreme right is Anna Bay. And you can see this fairly well in a compressed photo on an overcast day with typical haze. Imagine the view with your eyeball on a perfectly clear day. Indeed, one can see Nelson Head, another 5km away, and everything in between, crystal clear.

Now imagine being in an aircraft looking for u-boat wakes, or being on the bridge of a ship with binoculars or other optics. Or at night with strong or multiple search beams. Now use this as a reference for considering POTENTIAL visibility in between (as the Kpt said "This POTENTIAL spotting is influenced by several atmospheric variables.").

Oh, Fort Scratchley once fired on a Japanese sub which was presenting bow only 5 kilometres out to sea at 2am in the morning, with only the muzzle flashes to guide it as it's equipment was not the most modern of the time - much less than what one would expect on an Escort or Destroyer (by the time strong search lights were ready, the sub had gone).

Anyway, my aim is not to convert or convince, but just to explain my experiences and urge you to enjoy the choice you have, rather than merely assume that you (and others who have said "look at this GWX") are right and GWX must submit.

[Ducimus]

Perception of reality is how different supermods got their start as i recall. :rotfl:
It always seems to come back to, the best way to achieve a sense of the word "realistic". Everyone goes about that in different ways, and even the word itself comes under debate, thats always fun. :rotfl:

In a way, in the past I really enjoyed being in the middle of the disagreement between the two mods, because i was free from "forum politics" for want of a better term. That is to say that there are things that both supermods do, that i do - and do not, agree with. It's always been that way for me, and "forum politics" being what it is after i foolishly picked a side once rather then staying neutral, often prohibits me from sharing my views on various mods without stepping on somebody's toes. And i don't particuarly enjoy that.

Anyway, the beauty of game modifications, you can build it your own way. Now i can appreciate the GWX's dev teams stance on this. They've put in alot of work, and then along come some jackass (namely me ) that takes a core component of their mod and turns it upside down with the release of a mod - the very existance of which is inheriantly questioning some of their work, and the very idea of changing a core aspect of their mod simply inconceiveable.

Now, personaly, I - would be upset. So if members of GWX team are upset with me, i totally understand, id be to. Anyway, my intent here isn't to try and ramrod my perception of what is "realistic" visual aquity for artifical intelligence down anyones throat. I just have my opinion on how i think the game should behave - and followed up on it. If people share a similar opinion they can D/L this mod, if not then they won't. I primarily put this mod together for myself so if nobody likes it and doesnt use it - it wont hurt my feelings.

Now all that said, in my book, its time to shut up and play. Seriously, once SH4 arrives, i will give less then a **** about ANYTHING dealing with sh3, and i won't be looking back on this game for a very long time to come. So any "much to do" about mods (past or present) is - quite frankly, moot.

I would suggest that since we all love games that offer us more choices, mods should be built to where players can easily decide how much of the so-called realism they want. My view personally was the a mod should be designed to avoid loading tons of absolutes into a game and be open to the use of other mods. So my view was to keep a small footprint. I also noted that when one makes certain major data changes to the SH3 platform one always runs into strange results somewhere along the line. Since I hate having to throw away a long career I tend to avoid over zealous mods. And their are things like the realistic U-boat damage for the skins. When a sub is covered in huge holes and yet it is still diving it just reminds me how unrealistic the sub damage system is for SH3! So I would rather not be reminded by the nice hull art. Since I do not have a super PC I also avoid Mods that try to avalanche my system with countless little TGAs. Its best I think to find a Mod theme and then keep close to that and avoid trying to become a REALITY GOD - or big boss. Make the mods simple and plan for them to allow other mods to overlap on them. In other words mods should be like a small shop rather than a huge Walmart.

[Ducimus]

mods should be built to where players can easily decide how much of the so-called realism they want

Thats why i mentioned what was recommended in max range's, said what i did with them, explained how it worked, and included the tweak file for TT's tweaker incase one doesnt agree - the user is empowered to change it themselves. You can take this visual model, and change it however you like.

Regardless of how you set this model ( I used mostly NYGM values on the assumption that its a known "proven" and should work without having alot of retesting) - the major point of this mod is so you don't have all units sharing the same visual node. To me its utterly ridiculous a tramp steamer having the same visual strength as an iowa class battleship, or to see as far over the horizon as a airplane.

edit:
Truth be told, i orginally only wanted to add visual nodes because of that reason (not change the entire system), but over time, decided that one enviormental variable was behaving way too erratical,

The crux of it is this:

[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.70 ;[0,1]
Waves attenuation=0.06 ;>=0

These settings really accentuate the sea. My understanding is it creates dips and valleys in the ocean that drop your uboat (or other ships) out of line of sight. The result is in rough weather, your nearly undetectible visually, and in calm weather (given the AI's max visuall distance of 30KM), totally exposed. Sh3 weather pattens are typically in two ways.... 15 kt winds, or dead calm, with not much variance in between.

In 15 kit winds, during daylight ive had planes fly right by me - being so close i could see them. And in calm winds, find myself being detected by a tramp steamer 20+KM away (which given our own visiual limitations, they might as well be past the curvature of the earth), or being shelled by an unknown ship, that i could not see, or identify. I've had both of these examples happen to me on more then a couple occasions.

This is why, when i .. exported this mod, i decide to go ahead and use their values. It wasn't a decision i took lightly. Infact i even tossed this mod and went back to GWX values, before i finally gave up and went back to this one.

As for this one, i personnaly feel the damper on the AI's ability to see at night might be a bit much - other then that it seems to work fine.

[Woof1701]

Hi Ducimus

I've been using the FIRST published version on the weekend. Here are my impressions:

Prowling along the US Coast in my Typ IXB in February 1942 I must say I'm pretty impressed with your mod so far. I had several encounters with escorts, that with normal GWX might have turned out pretty unpleasant. In all instances it was clear weather at night with overcast skies and medium winds. Each time I spotted the escort early enough to reduce speed and get out of its way before it detected me. Most of the times my crew detected the ship before I could make it out on the binoculars though (16 km Mod). Only once I was spotted quickly by an Elco which came directly at me at top speed and started shooting (and not hitting anything). I submerged since the deck gun was out of the question due to heavy seas (and I can't hit Elcos anyway) and after half an hour the Elco was gone. Twice it seemed to me that an escort detected me and was going straight for me, but it turned out I was just along its normal patrol routine and as soon as I changed course and put some distance between us it vanished from view. Nevertheless they're not blind at all and if you wait too long to evade or go too fast, they will see you. Unfortunately I had no opportunity yet to attack a convoy with those settings. Should prove quite interesting.

Merchants under these conditions (overcast, no moon, medium winds) are more or less deaf and blind as long as you don't move. I stayed surfaced and took station along the course of a medium tanker approx. 1500m from the spot it was supposed to pass by me and waited. The tanker never saw me sitting there and made no effort to dodge my T-I eels. Next time I tried the same tactic was wasn't stationary but running at approx 6 knots towards the merchant at a right angle. This time the merchant spotted me and made evasive maneuvers.

With aircraft I had the impression they still see quite well. I was detected by a plane from the air long before the harbor patrol DD saw me. Quite remarkable. The plane came into view at approx the same distance as the DD and the plane saw me instantly while the DD was already much closer and hadn't seen me. Very neat.

[Ducimus]

I've been using the FIRST published version

Its late, im tried and apparently ive removed previous versions from both my local and online copies of the first version. Im curious if i was still using GWX sim.cfg visual values in that version or not. Conversley id be intrested in your impression with the current version and how it would compare to your previous experiences with the first version. Ive had little in the way of feedback other then my own impressions- which i think are stuck inside the proverbial box so to speak.

thanks for your feedback.