Britain's frantic rush towards a fully fledged surveillance society

[The Avon Lady]

We don't need no stinkin' ID card!

Roadside fingerprint reader piloted

Police trials of a hand-held electronic fingerprint reader are being launched. Experts hope the device will save massive amounts of police time and money by allowing officers to identify suspects on the roadside without having to take them to the station. A pilot scheme - called Project Lantern - will be used in Luton, Bedfordshire, by officers targeting motoring offences.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

STEED - we should set up our own party and take this country back from the cesspool it's fallen into.

We indeed need a new party that will stand up to the PC Madness and the rest of the rubbish.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Yes indeed the police love targeting the motorist for a spot of revenue raising.

[Mr.Werner]

You geniuses ever stop and think these measure are there to save your lives?
This kinda reminds me of a woman who was complaining about how she had to wait so long because of the added security at the airport.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Mr.Werner

You geniuses ever stop and think these measure are there to save your lives?

Here's why.

Answer:
The National Identity Card can and will be faked allowing terrorists to enter the country with fewer security checks than at present. Why? If they carry the card, and their eye scan matches the database – then it will be "pass friend", without a second glance.

ID cards will do little to stop terrorism and may even aid it. Some terrorists are ‘card-carrying’ citizens of the country in which they carry out their acts (E.g. Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma bomber). Also, normal common sense anti-terrorism precautions will be dismantled and total reliance placed on the card.
"ID Cards won’t stop terrorism." David Blunkett(prior to resigning.)

[Mr.Werner]

Sorry, don't buy it.
What kind of government do you think we (western) have? You think they think of these security ideas just so that they can track normal people and take advantage of them??
Of course not, wake up, this is not Vendeta the movie. This is real life post 9-11.
These new security ideas are ways that our government is trying to protect its citizens (yes sorry, in my world the government is not out to get me).

[STEED]

Try living here and safe guarding your civil rights from a over the top snooping government.

[XabbaRus]

This is where I agree wholeheartedly with STEED.

Just to let our little German friend know that at the moment should the police choose, under current anti-terror legislation they could pull you off the streets and detain and question you using some pretext. They don't because at the moment our bobbies still have some sense left in them, but it can be done. It's just a step down the road.

This new fingerprint thing is also dangerous. At the moment it is a trial so any print takes have to be voluntary, you can refuse. However if it becomes law then I am pretty certain if you refuse you will be fined. What if there is a case of mistaken identity and your print does happen to be at the crime scen because you were there at some other time. If they rely on this you could end up in the nick and have a hard time getting out.

If they want to cut down on crime and stop terrorism, put more police officers in foot patrol, cops in panda cars don't mix with the community.

Also didn't some guy called Hitler not a long while back also bring in laws and infringe on citizens rights in the name of security to protect the people, and look what you got. A complete nutter who started a second world war and wrought untold devestation.

Sorry but even the USSR wasn't as bad as I fear the UK could get.

[August]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

panda cars

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Mr.Werner

(yes sorry, in my world the government is not out to get me).

Paranoid are we? Well, well look what my government is up to.

Child database 'will ruin family privacy'

[lesrae]

I don't have a problem with the new fingerprinting technology, it's meant to speed things up. Instead of arresting you and taking you to the police station for a full ID check it can be done at the side of the road. If you refuse to take it then you can still be taken to the station, that'll waste your time, the police's time and a load of taxpayers money, which is a favourite war-cry of some around here.

With nothing to fear I'll happily let them take my prints and get on about my business, my prints are already on record from a former indescretion so they'll soon work out who I am and let me on my way. The idea that I'll be picked up for speeding and then done for a crime where my prints are on the scene is a no-brainer - the evidence is way too slim and circumstantial for that to be a concern.

[XabbaRus]

Not the point Lesrae

They could come and stop me in the street and finger print me cos they are searching for a suspect and think he might still be in the area.

Don't care if I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to fear. It is the principle of the thing. Criminals are fingerprinted, suspects who have been arrested and read their rights with a lawyer present are fingerprinted. Random me on the street minding my own business. No thanks. One thing will lead to another.

If they want to speed things up how about quit making the coppers do all the paperwork that they have to do.

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

If they want to speed things up how about quit making the coppers do all the paperwork that they have to do.

I couldn't agree with you more there mate.

I understand that prints taken won't be kept on file, just checked against the national archive, of course whether you believe that or not is a different matter...

[Mr.Werner]

Umm, if the police stops you, it's because they are looking for a criminal...this is wrong??
The way I see it, the only reason somebody would complain is because they have something to hide, otherwise you would realise that these measures are there to protect you.
I'll say it again, the government/police is not out to get you (unless you did something wrong).
Btw You might want to thank your local policeman next time you see one, for protecting you in case of an emergency.
These threads are so silly, I'm outta here.

[XabbaRus]

come live in my town.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Mr.Werner

Umm, if the police stops you, it's because they are looking for a criminal...this is wrong??
The way I see it, the only reason somebody would complain is because they have something to hide, otherwise you would realise that these measures are there to protect you.
I'll say it again, the government/police is not out to get you (unless you did something wrong).
Btw You might want to thank your local policeman next time you see one, for protecting you in case of an emergency.
These threads are so silly, I'm outta here.

You are so naieve. Whenever someone says that police are just doing their jobs and taht if we are truly innocent that we won't be hasseled must be living in a dream world because police are the most dangerous force present in any democratic nation.

The reason I say this is because it is the purpose of police to not trust anyone. Police are instinctively distrustful of anyone and it is their nature to deny you your rights. Theres a reason that the division of powers is such a big deal in the American Constitution. There have to be people monitoring the police because they are obviously not trustworthy. Don't be so stupid as to imply that they are just some brave crusaders for our safety because they are just bruisers that are set with enforcing laws. This isn't to say that police aren't im,portant. But it is a fact that they are what I and many others would call a necessary evil.

Police are an ironic thing as they protect our rights by essentially denying then. But you cannot doubt for one moment that they would not take advantage of you given the chance. The best example that I can bring up is one from my own country.

I'm from Canada and this is generally perceived to be a left leaning progressive place. However in 1970 during the FLQ crisis when domestic terrorists kidnapped the British Ambassador and later killed him Pierre Trudeau, then Prime Minister, declared War Measures in Canada to be able to track these terrorists down. Now though the crisis was isolated to Quebec all constitutional rights were lifted accross the country. And while the army was walking the streets of Montreal in every other province in Canada police were arresting aribitrarily any and all dissidents and pinkos and left wing adjitators and anyone else on their radar and simply throwing them in jail for no reason other than they were dissidents. My father even experienced this. He was at the park that day and with a number of older teens who were smoking weed and loitering. The police came over the hill and arrested anyone that was older than 16. My dad got away cause he was 14.

Now my country is far from a dictatorhsip but this anecdote cleary shows how close we are to a police state. Given the chance the executive will take advantage of you regardless whether you have done anything wrong.

People can also say that this is just one little thing or that its for the good blah blah. It is one more step in the wrong direction. This sort of thing, ID cards and such, is a step closer to a closed society with no rights. We should be moving away from such a thing. It is possible to defend everyones freedom without denying them it.

its like the old cliche, you can't defend freeodm by destroying it.