'Seawolves' contains Mods by...

Originally Posted by Gammel

hihi, quite amusing the person who is probably the most hated to that company has bought their product... :P

...no alternative, as I didn't receive a review copy for obvious reasons...

[Egan]

Anything that looks like RUB ln it? Doubtful , of course, but the bugger is a thief.

[Beery]

Mods were definitely stolen. We have seen proof. How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, X1 is not exactly a company we can trust to do the right thing.

Originally Posted by Beery

Mods were definitely stolen. We have seen proof. How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, X1 is not exactly a company we can trust to do the right thing.

Yup, just found out that the soundwork of the german 'AOTD'-Clan is in - unauthorized. A member of 'AOTD' has confirmed it.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Beery

How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one.

Ten hours ago you wrote about the German community that "they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen." And now you write that you´re "pretty sure" that there is at least one stolen mod. You´ve answered my original question, you have no proof. Then I´m wondering why you use the words "scam", "swindle" and "stolen mods"...

[martes86]

If you see Sansal's Milk Cows, don't get surprised. In a meeting of the 24th Flotilla in August, he confirmed me that he authorized the mod to be put there.

Just wanted to clear this one out.

[Shadow9216]

Beery wrote:
How many stolen mods are in the release version is in doubt, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one.


Ten hours ago you wrote about the German community that "they don't seem all that clued in to the fact that much of it is actually stolen." And now you write that you´re "pretty sure" that there is at least one stolen mod. You´ve answered my original question, you have no proof. Then I´m wondering why you use the words "scam", "swindle" and "stolen mods"...

What proof are you demanding? If you're asking for proof from the release version, you have to wait for Terrapin's evaluation- and Beery didn't say he had purchased a release copy; his comment that he's sure there's at least one (stolen mod) wasn't offered as definitive proof- it was his assertion, based on the previous actions of the company. Over here, we call that probable cause.

"Scam- a fraudulent scheme, esp for making a quick, illegal profit"
"Swindle- to cheat out of money or other assets, to obtain by fraud or deceit"

I'd say the actions of those involved in Seewolves fit the above definitions- the common theme here is obtaining money through deceit. The bare fact is that the original seewolves contained mods which were used without author's permission. We have correspondence from X1 operatives indicating they knew they used mods improperly. After they were confronted and challenged, they belatedly attempted to gain permission to use these mods- that harkens back to the charge of "scam" and "swindle"...they were marketing a product they didn't have complete rights to.

Until Terrapin finishes his evaluation, we won't know for sure how many stolen mods are used in the release version- he's confirmed one. However, probable cause exists for us to continue to doubt X1's veracity, and their integrity. It seems laughable to criticize people here who express doubt about X1's product; X1 has failed the honesty litmus test, they get no benefit of the doubt. It is not enough for us to prove our claims, it is incumbent upon X1 to establish their credibility.

Several people on this board have posted lengthy proofs regarding this matter. To my mind they have satisfied the burden of proof that X1 attempted to perpetrate a fraud with the development of Seewolves. No one here needs to convince me any further of X1's wrongdoing- in fact, it is up to X1 (or their supporters, be there any) to provide proof of their honesty...and ultimately, as a responsible company concerned with profit margins and developing a customer base, they should be interested in winning back/over the doubters among us. Or do they still fear exposure of thier product?

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Shadow9216

What proof are you demanding? [...] It seems laughable to criticize people here who express doubt about X1's product;

There is a difference between being extremely sceptical towards X1 and, now that the release version is out, using libelous expressions like "X1=Thieves", "scam" and "swindle" and "stolen mods" - and all that without a proof.

Call them thieves or scammers as soon as they have lost a lawsuit, when they were branded as "thieves" by a court of law. Until then, don´t use such expressions. Don´t forget, libel is illegal.

[CWorth]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

There is a difference between being extremely sceptical towards X1 and, now that the release version is out, using libelous expressions like "X1=Thieves", "scam" and "swindle" and "stolen mods" - and all that without a proof.

Call them thieves, scammers or whatever you like as soon as they have lost a lawsuit, when they were branded as "thieves" by a court of law. Until then, don´t use such expressions.

Have you even read anything of the other posts onthis subject..

WHAT MORE BLASTED PROOF DO YOU NEED!!!!!!

These people outright admitted to stealing mods without permission..that makes them THEIVES.Then planning on selling it for a profit makes them SCAMMERS and FRAUDS..end of story..case closed.

Only thing is they got caught and then did a backpeddle.

And I for one do not care one bit if they did remove the mods in question.That does not make it right all of a sudden.They still had the intentions of stealing and selling for profit the work of others and that makes them admitted theives and frauds.The intentions were there...that is all that matters.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by CWorth

WHAT MORE BLASTED PROOF DO YOU NEED!!!!!!

Don´t shout at me.

I and most others want to see proof that the final version contains stolen parts. What they did in the past is basically irrelevant from a legal standpoint.

[Shadow9216]

There is a difference between being extremely sceptical towards X1 and, now that the release version is out, using libelous expressions like "X1=Thieves", "scam" and "swindle" and "stolen mods" - and all that without a proof.

Ok, I see your point. Essentially, what they did previously is irrelevant now that the new release is out, and therefore the boyoctt X1 banners etc should all come down, until/unless we can prove the X1 addon still contains improperly obtained materials? Is that it? An interesting point :hmm: ...you're basically asking how long do we continue to punish X1 for past misdeeds? A hard question given X1's demonstrated lack of integrity- they did purloin mods, lie about having consent, stonewall attempts to gain information, and attempt to intimidate members of this community through personal attacks...kind of hard to forgive all of that, at least right away.

Call them thieves, scammers or whatever you like as soon as they have lost a lawsuit, when they were branded as "thieves" by a court of law. Until then, don´t use such expressions. Don´t forget, libel is illegal.

Libel is defined as defaming in print- defaming in turn is the false or unjustified injury of the good name or reputation of another. Calling X1 thieves after it has been shown that they misappropriated others work is neither false nor unjustified. Calling an attempt to make money by selling others work (freely available) a scam or a swindle is likewise neither false nor unjustified. Libel is illegal, just as theft of intellectual property and fraud are illegal. Who has the heavier burden of proof?

You say we should not use such expressions...in all honesty, I ask "why not?" Did X1's actions with the so-called "beta version" fit the definitions I gave above for a scam and/or swindle? If so, then calling them scammers and swindlers is perfectly acceptable. The only question we need be concerned with is this: is the criticism of X1, manifested by the banners etec, unjustified or false?

Originally, the answer is no- everything we said previously has been verified and substantiated. But like I said, you raise a good point- for argument's sake, what if the new pack is free of purloined materials and represents a new product, one which is immune to charges of fraud and/or theft of intellectual property? Although we are free to call for a continued boycott (and may be serving our own interests to do so), can we continue to carry the X1 Pirates banners? Our anti-X1 sig blocks? :hmm:

Ultimately though, my fear is this will remain an academic issue (though I would like to hear your thoughts on what you think a reasonable tactic would be?)...I believe there will be not one, but several mods of questionable heritage in this new product. Perhaps sufficiently altered to avoid a legal challenge of theft, but certainly not a whole new product- there's really no incentive for them to "reinvent the wheel", when the mods are freely available for them to download and alter as they see fit.

[HundertzehnGustav]

I ll jhust sit and wait for terrapin.
or should i say i ll jhust sit back and watch terrapin blast them away


hopefully.

aint no dum Guy that.

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

I ll jhust sit and wait for terrapin.
or should i say i ll jhust sit back and watch terrapin blast them away


hopefully.

aint no dum Guy that.

this will take awhile...all I can say at this point is that sounds are definitely stolen - and the -'campaign' is more than buggy. With one word:

Crap

.

[CWorth]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Don´t shout at me.

I and most others want to see proof that the final version contains stolen parts. What they did in the past is basically irrelevant from a legal standpoint.

Sorry about the yelling..

Just your asking people to not call them what they themselves have admitted to being and doing fits all definitions of the word thieves and scammers and frauds.That alone would stand up as a confession in any court.Whether or not they actually used the mods is irrelevent.As I stated the intention was there and that shows their integrity is none to sturdy for people to give them the benifit of the doubt.

You do make a good point on waiting and seeing if the release has any stolen mods..The big problem is that they have already done the damage to their reputations and for some people X1's past behavior is unforgivable and leaves alot of doubt as to whether or not they did remove them.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by terrapin

this will take awhile...all I can say at this point is that sounds are definitely stolen - and the -'campaign' is more than buggy. With one word:

Crap

.

Crap is your personal opinion, and do not count as facts .
However, your opinion has influence on my oppinion.

sounds are stolen you say, and little is left to prove it, filesize, stereo or mono, direct compare of frequencies via professional sound program etc. I believe.

I know it is a big package, and possibly a boring task, and frustrating too, given that you might find your Friends work "stolen".

I do not envy you for the task you take up on, and i have patience, lots of patience.

LOL

CRAP it is.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Cheers, man...