The MaGui mod - Final version

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

You got it. One thing that I always wonder is about is how do you find what spread angle to use?is there a tool for this where you feed in say range,length of ship and AOB and it gives you a spread angle?

I always knew it as you measured how many degrees the length of the target ship occupied in your reticle (usually by point at the nose and the tail and seeing how many degrees are in between) and then you just make the spread angle something within that breadth.

Example: If I have a ship moving port to stbd on a roughly perpendicular course to my own, and if the vertical centre of my reticle at his bow is at 005 degrees and at his stern its 355 degrees then thats a total of 10 degrees.

As I learned it your spread could be up to that wide. I've never done it but you could probably generate a spread for multiple targets if you knew the total degrees that the two covered from the stern of one to the bow of the other and made your spread so that the two torps would hit dead centre on both. However you're better off just firing a shot at each.

---------------------------------------------

NOW! I have my own question. I've never used the widescreen version of this GUI before and when I did I looked at it and said "this is wrong, the circles look oblong". Well I took some screens to show you guys and I was dumbfounded by the fact that my screen shots appeared to not have oblong circles.

So my question is, is this a problem or is this normal? Is this because my widescreen is a different aspect ratio from the 1360x768 that the mod requires? This appears to be to do with how my screen stretches the resolution, so I have no idea if this is fixable or not.

Anybody?

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

I always knew it as you measured how many degrees the length of the target ship occupied in your reticle (usually by point at the nose and the tail and seeing how many degrees are in between) and then you just make the spread angle something within that breadth.

Example: If I have a ship moving port to stbd on a roughly perpendicular course to my own, and if the vertical centre of my reticle at his bow is at 005 degrees and at his stern its 355 degrees then thats a total of 10 degrees.

As I learned it your spread could be up to that wide. I've never done it but you could probably generate a spread for multiple targets if you knew the total degrees that the two covered from the stern of one to the bow of the other and made your spread so that the two torps would hit dead centre on both. However you're better off just firing a shot at each.

---------------------------------------------

NOW! I have my own question. I've never used the widescreen version of this GUI before and when I did I looked at it and said "this is wrong, the circles look oblong". Well I took some screens to show you guys and I was dumbfounded by the fact that my screen shots appeared to not have oblong circles.

So my question is, is this a problem or is this normal? Is this because my widescreen is a different aspect ratio from the 1360x768 that the mod requires? This appears to be to do with how my screen stretches the resolution, so I have no idea if this is fixable or not.

Anybody?

That is a freakin genius idea and yet so simple and easy to do that its BRILLIANT!!.Is this done with 1.5x or 6x?

[Wolfstriked]

Finally got the RAOBF wheel down after a year. Just did 7 attempts 100% realism and hit everytime.Whats crazy is that before I attempted these 7 tries I was verifying with WE and the WE never seemed to match my settings.So if I am hitting 90% of my torpedoes,this mean that the game factors in a penalty for the WE?Of course this is acceptable since many games allow you to be better if you do the work yourself.


Gotta practice and practice it though as I had to pause like crazy.Would like to know.....do ships change their settings by a noticeable amount if I say take 1 minute to work the RAOBF wheel after my initial readings?I ask this cause I become like a worrying unstable mess that each second that goes by and I haven't changed the TDC is gonna throw off the calculation.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

That is a freakin genius idea and yet so simple and easy to do that its BRILLIANT!!.Is this done with 1.5x or 6x?

In my experience it works at every magnification since the degrees scale as you increase magnification. Ultimately at any zoom a ship will still appear to be the same length if your instrument is calibrated to scale with the zoom changes, which every scope is, meaning it will appear larger to you but the degree marks will still be the same.

Really it makes perfect sense when you think about it. If you assume the scope is your own position and you measure that a ship covers 10 degrees from your own position then the spread angle works exactly the same way. If you drew 3 lines from your point of origin, one on your relative 0, meaning where your scope is pointed, then drew lines stbd and port of it you'd get a cone (2 sides of the triangle) going outward. If you set the spread to 4 degrees then it'll be 2 degrees left and right of the centre of your reticle, and so all you have to do is make sure that the target sits in that same range.

One of the simplest things I learned early early on years ago playing SH3. There have been many more than just melted my brain by comparison, but sometimes it eludes us cause nobody tells you this stuff, I don't think its really in any manuals here. Nobody ever really addresses salvo shots as far as I can tell. I'm gonna guess its cause everyone wants to be a hotshot like Kretschmer - "One ship, one torpedo".

Still hoping someone can answer my question.

EDIT. After thinking about it I'm just gonna draw a pic in PS to illustrate what I meant by the spread angle.



Thats how I always knew it. Now if I'm wrong, well someone feel free to correct me, I was never an expert on anything in this game, but that always worked for me. Bear in mind that max spread angle means you're going to be hitting the very tip of the bow and stern of the target (provided your solution is exact) so obviously you make the spread smaller.

Conversely you could make the spread wider than this by some if you thought your solution was particularly bad, but for academic purposes unaffected by immediate tactical considerations, that is how you determine maximum spread angle, as I know it. You either place the peri/UZO on the dead centre of the target and count the degrees from centre on Port and Stbd, or you place the centre vertical reticle for the peri/UZO and at both the stern and bow of the target and the difference in the two bearings is the max spread angle you can use.

Hope that helped.

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

In my experience it works at every magnification since the degrees scale as you increase magnification. Ultimately at any zoom a ship will still appear to be the same length if your instrument is calibrated to scale with the zoom changes, which every scope is, meaning it will appear larger to you but the degree marks will still be the same.

Really it makes perfect sense when you think about it. If you assume the scope is your own position and you measure that a ship covers 10 degrees from your own position then the spread angle works exactly the same way. If you drew 3 lines from your point of origin, one on your relative 0, meaning where your scope is pointed, then drew lines stbd and port of it you'd get a cone (2 sides of the triangle) going outward. If you set the spread to 4 degrees then it'll be 2 degrees left and right of the centre of your reticle, and so all you have to do is make sure that the target sits in that same range.

One of the simplest things I learned early early on years ago playing SH3. There have been many more than just melted my brain by comparison, but sometimes it eludes us cause nobody tells you this stuff, I don't think its really in any manuals here. Nobody ever really addresses salvo shots as far as I can tell. I'm gonna guess its cause everyone wants to be a hotshot like Kretschmer - "One ship, one torpedo".

Still hoping someone can answer my question.

EDIT. After thinking about it I'm just gonna draw a pic in PS to illustrate what I meant by the spread angle.



Thats how I always knew it. Now if I'm wrong, well someone feel free to correct me, I was never an expert on anything in this game, but that always worked for me. Bear in mind that max spread angle means you're going to be hitting the very tip of the bow and stern of the target (provided your solution is exact) so obviously you make the spread smaller.

Conversely you could make the spread wider than this by some if you thought your solution was particularly bad, but for academic purposes unaffected by immediate tactical considerations, that is how you determine maximum spread angle, as I know it. You either place the peri/UZO on the dead centre of the target and count the degrees from centre on Port and Stbd, or you place the centre vertical reticle for the peri/UZO and at both the stern and bow of the target and the difference in the two bearings is the max spread angle you can use.

Hope that helped.

It helped perfectly.I agree,it really doesn't matter what zoom since your counting bearing degrees which do not change with zoom.And all thanks to you mate.Slowly but surely I am learning tiny tidbits that will allow me to play with the realistic contacts mod.Still practicing the RAOBF tool and next is the attack tool.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by twgin

Magic1111 thanks for the tip about Hsie's option selector. I think reordering the mods I have installed brought torpedo performance back to a more realistic failure rate. Again, I have no explanation for this other than a case of dueling mods; I'll stick with this for a bit and see if I can rack up a few Iron Crosses !

Makman, thank you for the kind words. So I understand that my sequence should be set up the dials, turn on the TDC, and only then lock the scope/uzo on the target. I understand also that in manual targeting any course/speed changes by either my sub or the target will screw up the firing solution.

A few further questions; my technique has been to (all in manual targeting) use the plotting tools to set up a 90 degree attack from a predetermined position. This allows me to predict relative bearing, AOB, range and so on and reduces my problems to determining target speed and getting my sub to the predetermined position at about the same time the target reaches my selected value for relative bearing. What I have been doing is locking on when the target is at a 20 degree relative bearing to the sub (or 340) and then firing when the target had moved to between 10 and 0 degree relative bearing (to minimize gyro angle).

But if the range is in fact not updating in the TDC my predetermined solution at 20 deg relative bearing is wrong at the firing point of 10 deg relative bearing (not really too much range change at these angles...). Is this the case or is the TDC updating the range "inside the box" and just not updating the dial ? Does range even affect gyro angle ?

I am reminded of every sub movie ever made where the captain goes up scope, takes one final set of range/bearings, yells "mark !" and then "fire tube 1!".

So I guess the question is, in manual targeting is the TDC only good for an instantaneous solution (put in the numbers, green light on, lock scope, fire) or will it hold on to a solution over (a short span of) time.

One final question, kind of related, in choppy seas with the scope set low, target lock will be lost as waves lap over the scope. Is this a problem, i.e when scope lock goes away does the TDC grind to a halt or produce an erroneous gyro angle ? Or is it that scope lock just gives the TDC a starting relative bearing value and it will output a continuous good gyro angle as long as courses/speeds remain the same ?

Thanks !

Terry

hi Terry,

no ,your speed is not effecting anything at firing solution ...only your course must be constant . look at TDC dials...there are four of them . the Bearing and the AoB dials are determine the angle between both courses (yours and target) thats why you or target must not change course . the third dial is target's Speed (thats why target must not change speed) and the last one is the Range's dial which must be adjusted last and yes ,one moment before firing. (so,as you can see, there is nowhere your speed involved)
when you are preparing the dials (at very first stage) you must set a range which must be as accurate as possible (no need at this stage to be very accurate...just a good aproximation is needed.you will fining the range at several times as target is getting closer) in order to get an 'idea' of the gyroangle .as you fining the range...you fining the gyroangle too !
of course you must have done a good 'job' on determing target's course and speed (especially target's speed is the most critical value ! and if your shot is from less than 1 km i can tell you that ONLY a good estimation of target's speed is needed and just an aproximation to its course and you will get him down. )
yes , the TDC is for 'constant' shots thats why you need this 'one moment before firing' range value and yes range is always important for the firing solution and is important also for straight shots (gyro=0) but ,at this case, has less effection to solution thats why is mostly used.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

.......

NOW! I have my own question. I've never used the widescreen version of this GUI before and when I did I looked at it and said "this is wrong, the circles look oblong". Well I took some screens to show you guys and I was dumbfounded by the fact that my screen shots appeared to not have oblong circles.

So my question is, is this a problem or is this normal? Is this because my widescreen is a different aspect ratio from the 1360x768 that the mod requires? This appears to be to do with how my screen stretches the resolution, so I have no idea if this is fixable or not.

Anybody?

hi P_Funk,
there is nothing wrong if the circles are 'stretched' or not . for years i was playing my sh3 at widescreen (without the widescreen version) at 1024x768 resolution . when i saw the sh3 on a friends pc (who had a non widescreen monitor ) and i saw the cirles...exactly as circles i was sure for one thing : i liked better the stretched images ...looked better at my eyes .
of course , i can't tell (and i don't know) if all the monitors are stretching with the same way (or amount) the circles so ,have in mind , that i am talking for my own experience here.
at widescreen version though ,at my pc, the circles are.... circles but this has to do afaik with monitors,connections ...etc ...that i am not the expert to help you more on these things

[makman94]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

......
Thats how I always knew it. Now if I'm wrong, well someone feel free to correct me, I was never an expert on anything in this game, but that always worked for me. Bear in mind that max spread angle means you're going to be hitting the very tip of the bow and stern of the target (provided your solution is exact) so obviously you make the spread smaller.

.....

yes, you are not correct here P_Funk becuase the 'angle x' is not equal to MaximumSpeadAngle.
think about it ...the AoB is critical for the amount of ship's length that you see from scope . the 'problem' is that the torpedoes will not hit the target at the bearing that you see it but at the bearing that the impact point would be (where ,also, you need to do a 'bearing correction' becuase tube's eye is some meters in front of scope's eye) .
there are mathematical formulas for calculating the observed ship's length at this bearing(this is not difficult problem at all) and getting that way the spread angle that you need but really there is no reason to start making all these calculations as you have a much more ,imo, comfort way to achieve a salvo shot in MaGui F:
in MaGui F i have altered the tubes to stay always open(and not close) no matter which one you have currently selected (at single shooting mode). now ,once you have your firing solution ready turn your scope at the firing bearing and WAIT the target to cross from your vertical line of scope . start shooting one by one your torps at the parts of ship that you like to aim as target is crossing the scope's vertical line (don't move your scope at all from the shooting bearing). that way you are achieving a salvo shot at whatever parts of ship you like (and if your solution was very acurate you will see the torps hiting exactly at the ship's parts that you aimed).

have a look at this video (after the 1:30 is the salvo shooting that is in the interest of this post):

HTH

[Wolfstriked]

P_funks's technique works well though so I now have two ways to calculate hit areas and growing. Two ways for target speed with the UJAGD and the RAOBF wheel.Two ways for range with RAOBF wheel and the stadimeter.Options are very nice and realistic!

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by makman94

hi P_Funk,
there is nothing wrong if the circles are 'stretched' or not . for years i was playing my sh3 at widescreen (without the widescreen version) at 1024x768 resolution . when i saw the sh3 on a friends pc (who had a non widescreen monitor ) and i saw the cirles...exactly as circles i was sure for one thing : i liked better the stretched images ...looked better at my eyes .
of course , i can't tell (and i don't know) if all the monitors are stretching with the same way (or amount) the circles so ,have in mind , that i am talking for my own experience here.
at widescreen version though ,at my pc, the circles are.... circles but this has to do afaik with monitors,connections ...etc ...that i am not the expert to help you more on these things

Well the thing is the widescreen resolution that was selected for this is a 16:9 aspect ratio, while my monitor is a 16:10. When I launched the game the image was definitely stretched and when I looked at screen shots I'd taken through the game's screenshot button they however were definitely not stretched. This leads me to believe that my aspect ratio, which is actually less and less available these days, actually stretches the image even if its a widescreen aspect ratio since its a different widescreen resolution, and therefore its still stretching the image.

My monitor is 1680x1050, which is 16:10, while 1360x768 is 16:9 as it stretches to fill monitors that are 1920x1080 which are also 16:9 aspect ratio. My gut tells me that this is true, but I'll never be able to test this until I get a monitor thats 16:9. In either case its not a big deal for me, its just something I noticed and was kind of surprised when I saw my screenshots were widescreen but not stretched even though they appeared so on my widescreen monitor.

------------

As for the spread angle problem, I never expected my 'method' to be perfectly accurate. It strikes me that if the spread angle is in degrees and its spreading from the centre of the reticle that as long as you're not spreading it generally more than the width of the target in the scope it will still hit the target. I don't really think salvo shots are meant to be pin point and are more about firing a shotgun blast in case your solution isn't perfect or if you just want to put put as many holes in a ship rather than trying to hit an engine room or ammo stash.

Now you say that there are formulas you can use, but obviously I doubt u-boat commanders used these. Also if and when a commander, or 1WO with the UZO, fired a salvo shot how DID they judge spread angle? I'm fairly certain that sumariners trained in torpedo attacks wouldn't just wing it. Using single shots to aim at different parts of the target is obviously a way to create a salvo shot, but the salvo function still exists and as such there much have been a quick and dirty way to pick the spread angle and there must have been an 'official' way as well (unless the official way is the quick and dirty way). My question is, while the method I mentioned is not strictly accurate becuase the AOB changes during the torpedo run, wouldn't it still be a roughly accurate way to estimate spread angle? I don't suppose there is there a more accurate way that doesn't involve breaking out a calculator.

[Kpt. Weyprecht]

Sorry for asking something that was already said many times, but could anyone repost the current formulas for calculating distance just with the reticles (i. e. without the rings, I feel my scope observations get long when I start turning them back and forth and it feels more realistic that way). I remember the Mast/numer of marks x 1000 which worked at 1.5x magnification with the milliradian vertical scale but I'm not sure it stille works. Likewise, I found the formula for the old scale of the UZO (in ManosOprics thread) but the scale is no longer the same.


Thanks for advice.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Well the thing is the widescreen resolution that was selected for this is a 16:9 aspect ratio, while my monitor is a 16:10. When I launched the game the image was definitely stretched and when I looked at screen shots I'd taken through the game's screenshot button they however were definitely not stretched. This leads me to believe that my aspect ratio, which is actually less and less available these days, actually stretches the image even if its a widescreen aspect ratio since its a different widescreen resolution, and therefore its still stretching the image.

My monitor is 1680x1050, which is 16:10, while 1360x768 is 16:9 as it stretches to fill monitors that are 1920x1080 which are also 16:9 aspect ratio. My gut tells me that this is true, but I'll never be able to test this until I get a monitor thats 16:9. In either case its not a big deal for me, its just something I noticed and was kind of surprised when I saw my screenshots were widescreen but not stretched even though they appeared so on my widescreen monitor.

hi P_Funk,
as i told you ....i can't tell about all the above.maybe it will be better to ask it seperately on a new thread , i think that you will be more lucky on getting an answer to your question

Originally Posted by P_Funk

As for the spread angle problem, I never expected my 'method' to be perfectly accurate. It strikes me that if the spread angle is in degrees and its spreading from the centre of the reticle that as long as you're not spreading it generally more than the width of the target in the scope it will still hit the target. I don't really think salvo shots are meant to be pin point and are more about firing a shotgun blast in case your solution isn't perfect or if you just want to put put as many holes in a ship rather than trying to hit an engine room or ammo stash.

Now you say that there are formulas you can use, but obviously I doubt u-boat commanders used these. Also if and when a commander, or 1WO with the UZO, fired a salvo shot how DID they judge spread angle? I'm fairly certain that sumariners trained in torpedo attacks wouldn't just wing it. Using single shots to aim at different parts of the target is obviously a way to create a salvo shot, but the salvo function still exists and as such there much have been a quick and dirty way to pick the spread angle and there must have been an 'official' way as well (unless the official way is the quick and dirty way). My question is, while the method I mentioned is not strictly accurate becuase the AOB changes during the torpedo run, wouldn't it still be a roughly accurate way to estimate spread angle? I don't suppose there is there a more accurate way that doesn't involve breaking out a calculator.

i didn't tell you that there are the formulas for using them in game. i told you this just for replying to this part of your posts:

Originally Posted by P_Funk

... Nobody ever really addresses salvo shots as far as I can tell. I'm gonna guess its cause everyone wants to be a hotshot like Kretschmer - "One ship, one torpedo".
....

i told you that the problem ,as geometrical problem, is not hard at all to be solved but you don't see anything adressed in game becuase these calculations takes a lot of time and, mainly,you don't really need to do them as you allready have more comfort ways like the one i described or the other -hard estimation-that you are saying (which is not new...it is long time posted around here) for in game use.

my opinion for all these about 'salvo' shots is that this fuction was not in reality for use as the sh3's players are trying to use it .
Salvo shots were not meant to hit specific parts of target BUT there were for eliminating ,as possible, the possibility of target to 'get away' becuase of faulty calculations on firing solution . i mean that they shot,for example, three torps in order to be 'more' sure that the one of them will hit .
or ,i guess, that one more use of salvo shots were for sending the pack is the middle of a convoy just wishing to hit as many or all of them .

but all the above are also what i guess and for sure i can't tell if they had or not a calculator (sliderule) for spread angle . i believe that they carry with them whatever sliderule we might imagine (so why not this one too) .maybe with a very good dig on internet find something

Originally Posted by Kpt. Weyprecht

Sorry for asking something that was already said many times, but could anyone repost the current formulas for calculating distance just with the reticles (i. e. without the rings, I feel my scope observations get long when I start turning them back and forth and it feels more realistic that way). I remember the Mast/numer of marks x 1000 which worked at 1.5x magnification with the milliradian vertical scale but I'm not sure it stille works. Likewise, I found the formula for the old scale of the UZO (in ManosOprics thread) but the scale is no longer the same.

Thanks for advice.

Hi Kpt. Weyprecht,

i never gave formulas for getting the range directly from MaGui F scopes's reticles

but if you want to use the reticles of MaGui F that way ,here are the formulas to use :
at x1,5 : range = 57,1*mast/mark
at x6 : range = 228,4*mast/mark

for the uzo in MaGui F , i have written the formula to use in 'Manos Optics' text inside the documents of MaGui F :
range = 405,4*mast/mark

bye

[P_Funk]

Aside from the changes made to the open/closing of torpedo doors, are there any other changes made to the Commands_en file? I want to know for the purposes of making my own tweaked commands file.

I appreciate any information you can give me.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Aside from the changes made to the open/closing of torpedo doors, are there any other changes made to the Commands_en file? I want to know for the purposes of making my own tweaked commands file.

I appreciate any information you can give me.

hi P_Funk,

exept the changes at commands that are responsible for the tube's behaviour , all other changes in commands_en files are for altering some 'go back' cameras (non important at all) or for activating some specific buttons in the MaGui (so,these changes has,also, no meaning for other guis at all as they exist only for the fuctionality of some of MaGui's buttons)

[Vince82]

Originally Posted by P_Funk
Well the thing is the widescreen resolution that was selected for this is a 16:9 aspect ratio, while my monitor is a 16:10. When I launched the game the image was definitely stretched and when I looked at screen shots I'd taken through the game's screenshot button they however were definitely not stretched. This leads me to believe that my aspect ratio, which is actually less and less available these days, actually stretches the image even if its a widescreen aspect ratio since its a different widescreen resolution, and therefore its still stretching the image.

My monitor is 1680x1050, which is 16:10, while 1360x768 is 16:9 as it stretches to fill monitors that are 1920x1080 which are also 16:9 aspect ratio. My gut tells me that this is true, but I'll never be able to test this until I get a monitor thats 16:9. In either case its not a big deal for me, its just something I noticed and was kind of surprised when I saw my screenshots were widescreen but not stretched even though they appeared so on my widescreen monitor.

Maybe this will help: go to your videocard options select 1360x768 as your resolution, than select keep aspect ratio (as opposed to fill screen). Only selecting keep aspect ratio without changing ur resolution might help too. Also you got to have the right setting in the d3d9.ini file.



Anyways I've got a question aswell. Can I use the MaGui 3.4 widescreen add on together with MaGui final?