Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Silly question on TT's Mini Tweaker.
Changing values in the tweak files is no problem but I haven't a clue how to restore the original value. Do I need to make seperate backup copies of everything or are these kept somewhere-what is the restore file process? Also, what function does Refresh Tweak File serve. Could not find it anywhere in the read me's
My aplogies if this has been asked already but I could not find the answer.

Mini Tweaker should make a copy of the file the first time it is changed. "Copy of .....). But only the first time.

Refresh Tweak File reloads the tweak file and display the values again using the new tweak file roadmap. It's for those people who want to edit the tweak files on the fly (with Mini Tweaker open), resave, then refresh them. Like if you're experimenting with a value, unsure of its type (maybe it's displaying funny) and trying different possibilities to see if it's a Single, Long type, etc.). Use Open In Notepad to open the tweak file.

TT

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by CB..

tell you what is puzzling me-- has anybody found which file or files contain the AI instructions---not the sensor information or method of calculating sensor information but the actual AI instructions---

I believe it to be hard coded in either sh3.exe or sh3.dll or SH3Sim.act. In most games in my experience the actual AI logic is hard coded.

Which makes it basically untouchable unless you are a Uber hacker with a good disassembler and a lot of time on your hands.

We may have to be happy with what we can tweak in the DAT, SIM, ZON, and CFG files.

TT

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by CB..

say on the plus side if we are going to find the AI routines you've show what we should be searching for

AI DETECTION

as this is the precise wording used for this in the cfg file it must allso be the way it is wored in the main files somewhere-- find the word detection somewhere and it might be close--

Me curious too. I did a search through all the game files and the word "DETECTION" is used only in these files (all CFGs by the way, except for the mission and menu one):

C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Cfg\AirStrike.c fg
C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Cfg\Sensors.cfg
C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Cfg\Sim.cfg
C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Menu\en_menu.tx t
C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\MultiMissions\E nglish\Storm\storm.mis

TT

[CB..]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

I believe it to be hard coded in either sh3.exe or sh3.dll or SH3Sim.act. In most games in my experience the actual AI logic is hard coded.

Which makes it basically untouchable unless you are a Uber hacker with a good disassembler and a lot of time on your hands.

We may have to be happy with what we can tweak in the DAT, SIM, ZON, and CFG files.

TT

many thanks TT -- i've checked the act and exe files i'll check the dll file allso--what i was hoping was that similar to SH2 there would be some-where a set of files or entrys in files that listed amoungst the normal code recognisable words describing variuos parts of the AI routines--
in SH2 there were statements like--ASWapproach ASWCreep etc (i can't rememer the exact terms but this gives the idea)
giving a mental picture of how the AI went about it buisness--and sometimes you get lucky and discover you can substitute one command for another (same amount of letters in the term used) and get something interesting gameplay--
any way it's just frustrating not knowing where the stuff is--

will check the DLL for clues--it certainly doesn't appear to be in the exe or act files at least using any conventional language a lay man (such as myself) could read --which isn't saying much i know--given it could well be there in full and i wouldn't recognise it for what it was--

##EDIT !!

cheers for the info on the detection search---it doesn't seem to be the key word--that's half the battle knowing what precise term to search for--
was worth a shot--

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by CB..

i did find something that could be of use with the help of TimeTravellor---

if the hydrophones sensors calculates the RPM of the subs engines in order to calculate wether it's detectable or not--
that's if i have understood the info linked by teddy bar

if we increase the RPM needed to maintain a certain speed then the sub will become easier to detect--

do a search for RPM/KT in the SH3sim.act file and it looks like this could be edited---not by me i hasten to add-- but TT might know what to do--

if this worked then that's another possible method of attacking the problem--

ther's allso mention of something called the SIM MACHINE ACTION CONTROLLER--but that's beyond my ability to find

I did a scan on RPM and KT in the ACT file you mentioned. Unfortunately, they are only mentioned in a textual sense, i.e., used in a console (bridge log) type message.

SIM MACHINE ACTION CONTROLLER is a new one for me. Any other info in it??

TT

[timetraveller]

Sorry to keep spamming the forum, guys.

Have you looked at the RPMDetLevel value in Sensors_dat.txt in the Mini Tweaker? Appears to be the RPM Detetion Level for each of the sensors. I know this is the player sub and not the AI, but....???...maybe.

TT

[CB..]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

I did a scan on RPM and KT in the ACT file you mentioned. Unfortunately, they are only mentioned in a textual sense, i.e., used in a console (bridge log) type message.

SIM MACHINE ACTION CONTROLLER is a new one for me. Any other info in it??

TT

in the sh3sim.act file
it's found at
033556 (if that's the correct way to locate it?)

it maybe that Sim action machine and controller are seperate terms sorry bwt that and it may just refer to actions perfromed by the sim.cfg as those entrys follow imediately afterwards--


at 034a28 there's the rpm/kt=% which is why i thought it may be editable i'm shooting in the dark here as i don't have any real crasp on hex stuff at all--

[CB..]

Originally Posted by timetraveller

Sorry to keep spamming the forum, guys.

Have you looked at the RPMDetLevel value in Sensors_dat.txt in the Mini Tweaker? Appears to be the RPM Detetion Level for each of the sensors. I know this is the player sub and not the AI, but....???...maybe.

TT

if this is spam i'm a fan!!! great stuff reckon that's EXACTLY it!!! many thanks TT again!!

if we in effect make the subs props noiser at a given speed then this will allows us to (in effect) increase the performance of the DD sensors dynamically--and very precisely--

yep rpm detection level --has to be it!!!

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by CB..

in the sh3sim.act file
it's found at
033556 (if that's the correct way to locate it?)

it maybe that Sim action machine and controller are seperate terms sorry bwt that and it may just refer to actions perfromed by the sim.cfg as those entrys follow imediately afterwards--

Yes, you have the correct location method. I see it. The text names in this area seem to be some of the same ones in the Sim.cfg file. I don't believe there is room in some cases to hold values next to them. What they are probably used for is what programmer's call "literals". Most likely used by the program to know what name to look for in the Sim.cfg file.

Originally Posted by CB..

at 034a28 there's the rpm/kt=% which is why i thought it may be editable i'm shooting in the dark here as i don't have any real crasp on hex stuff at all--

This is something similar to the above. "rpm/kt%". Usually % means a fill-in value. The text and its fill-in value are usually used in a log message. Probably not for any AI value.

TT

[CB..]

cheers TT keep it coming !!

[timetraveller]

CB,

Another idea too on the RPM thing if the RPMDetLevel doesn't work. I am betting that if you increase the max RPM on the subs, you will get more detection chance at a given speed. For instance, the VII-C max RPM is 480. Raise it to 600-700 or so and I bet you are detected more often. Somewhere in this sim it has to check the current RPM level of units for detection purposes. My bet is it is proportional to the current speed.

TT

[CB..]

i will definitely try that TT --thanks!
have you seen at all any indication on how silent running actually works?--thinking along the same lines-- making the sub easier to detect at normal settings but making silent running slightly more effective to compensate--

[timetraveller]

Originally Posted by CB..

i will definitely try that TT --thanks!
have you seen at all any indication on how silent running actually works?--thinking along the same lines-- making the sub easier to detect at normal settings but making silent running slightly more effective to compensate--

No, I haven't. But it might be possible to up the max RPMs in the sub's SIM file, then also change the speed settings for the engine telegraph in its CFG file. Make AheadSlow very small. I am betting this will keep the RPMs down at that speed. With the max RPMs, say for a VII-C set up to 600, maybe this will work. .05 for AheadSlow might bring the RPMs to 30. Other RPMs at higher speeds will (hopefully) be higher than before and cause greater chance for detection. Worth a try if you guys haven't done it already.

And of course this is in case the RPMDetLevel change goes nowhere.

TT

VII-C .CFG file example-

Original:
[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.40
AheadOneThird=0.57
AheadStandard=0.80
AheadFull=0.94
AheadFlank=1.00

New:
Original:
[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.05
AheadOneThird=0.57
AheadStandard=0.80
AheadFull=0.94
AheadFlank=1.00

[Col7777]

Going off the above method, I altered my sub speed higher to compensate having no deck-guns, my slow speed is 4kts instead of 3kts, it doesn't SEEM to make any difference but I'm not as good a skipper as CB. In other words I get detected and toasted a lot.

[gouldjg]

Thanks TT & CB

Great ideas coming out here.

I have spent the best part of the day checking if DD do a better escort than DE etc etc blah blah blah.


I will be editing u505 mission tommorow and removing the link between DE and their leader yet leaving them in the same places.

I just need to find out, if they are a bit more free to move when loose and not tied to objects i.e. the give up times etc.

Maybe worth a try if a DE was the leader of the convoys or are they already in campaign games.

Not that there is much I can do even if they do behave better

All pretty futile experiments but I gotta hope and see if anything can come from it.


I also think ships are pretty blind to the scope here so am thinking of tweaking my scope to be very tempermental.

Remember, I like playing with all warnings off .

I have yet to try these settings on the improved convoy mod though so maybe things may not be that bad in game after all.