[REL] Merchant Fleet Mod for Silent Hunter 3 - Page 33

Gryffon300 · 01-24-11, 05:48 PM

Thanks, FK, that's fabulous. Getting close now.
Ive noted many "duplicates", e.g.
;Iambecomes MF mod
"L01B=Heavy Merchant 01"
Your new
"L01B=Heavy Merchant"
I will assume that the numerical suffixes in the original list do not invalidate them being declared as "duplicates", and I will delete, for consistency's sake, the duplicates in the 'new' list, not the original.

The only two other items that stuck out are:
"AMM=Ammunition Ship" (original) and, "AM01A=Ammunition Ship" (new). I will assume that these are NOT duplicates and leave both in. The other one is, "M10A=Medium Merchant 10" (original) and, "M10A=Hog Islander" (new). I assume that these ARE duplicates, though, as I'm kinda tickled with the 'Hog' designation, I may just replace that one. Cool?

Thanks again.

frau kaleun · 01-24-11, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryffon300

Thanks, FK, that's fabulous. Getting close now.
Ive noted many "duplicates", e.g.
;Iambecomes MF mod
"L01B=Heavy Merchant 01"
Your new
"L01B=Heavy Merchant"
I will assume that the numerical suffixes in the original list do not invalidate them being declared as "duplicates", and I will delete, for consistency's sake, the duplicates in the 'new' list, not the original.

The only two other items that stuck out are:
"AMM=Ammunition Ship" (original) and, "AM01A=Ammunition Ship" (new). I will assume that these are NOT duplicates and leave both in. The other one is, "M10A=Medium Merchant 10" (original) and, "M10A=Hog Islander" (new). I assume that these ARE duplicates, though, as I'm kinda tickled with the 'Hog' designation, I may just replace that one. Cool?

Thanks again.

You're getting it, in any entry it works as follows:

CLASS=Display Name

so AMM and AM01A are two different classes and need two different entries, even if both entries have the same Display Name. (Each class should correspond to a folder in the Sea directory, altho a folder name may not always match its class name exactly.) Obviously there are numerous Tankers, but they come in many classes so each class has its own entry even if they all just ID as "Tanker" when they appear in the game.

But you don't need two entries for one class, so for M10A you want only one entry, either

M10A=Medium Merchant 10

or

M10A=Hog Islander

but not both. I don't think it makes any difference which you choose, pick whichever one you think will look cool when it shows up in the game.

Sailor Steve · 01-24-11, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryffon300

1)- This 'names' issue. I get M36B etc in the scope descriptor for MFM targets. I know from very early in the thread, people were asking about this, and I saw that one had to ammend the englishnames.cfg file.

The class name in the Recognition Manual or the periscope-view notepad has nothing to do with ship names. The place to change that is in the Roster folder. There is a folder for each nation there, and inside that are files for each ship class. On that page you will see 'DisplayName'. That's where the RM reads it from.

Quote:

I see a smallish download of shipnames from Aug 2010 (181) that Frau Kaleun refers to in her erudite discussion with Rob40, but, is this short list all I need? Is there another readme somewhere that I need to 'get' all this?

The '181' is the number of new ships I added from the July list to the August list. I was apologising for that amount because I usually manage to get 300 or more per month. There are a total of more than 11,000 names on that list. Hardly "smallish".

frau kaleun · 01-24-11, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The class name in the Recognition Manual or the periscope-view notepad has nothing to do with ship names. The place to change that is in the Roster folder. There is a folder for each nation there, and inside that are files for each ship class. On that page you will see 'DisplayName'. That's where the RM reads it from.

Then what does Englishnames.cfg do? I always thought that's where the display names came from.

Sailor Steve · 01-24-11, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Then what does Englishnames.cfg do? I always thought that's where the display names came from.

I'm not sure. I think it's a roster of sorts, and if the names aren't there the game doesn't know the ship is there and will crash.

But I'm not sure.

frau kaleun · 01-24-11, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm not sure. I think it's a roster of sorts, and if the names aren't there the game doesn't know the ship is there and will crash.

But I'm not sure.

Well I know it's got to be something, otherwise every time someone puts out a ship to add they wouldn't make a point of saying to make sure you add it to that file. Maybe it's where the Museum pulls names from?

Robin40 · 01-25-11, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Well I know it's got to be something, otherwise every time someone puts out a ship to add they wouldn't make a point of saying to make sure you add it to that file. Maybe it's where the Museum pulls names from?

uhmmmm...I noted that englishnames are pulled into the peri display...

I used Frau list and got the name in the peri display

I used MFMBeta list and got the name in the peri display

maybe I'm wrong anyway

try a hit...change the emglishname of Prince of Wales and start the Bismarck mission

anyway SailorSteve is right about CTD

two different things

Gryffon300 · 01-25-11, 08:38 AM

Thanks again for the hints.

Hey SS! I didn't say the TOTAL list was 'smallish', I was only referring to the August download of 181 names. Fair suck of the sauce bottle, mate!

I had only seen passing references to the 11,000 + "real ship names" in various posts - I had never seen the actual list, or where to get it and what to do with it once I did. Then I saw Nemo7's copy of the June download over on post 52 in "Why is SHIII+GWX the best ever in the hisyory of the Universe" (or something like that). That turned out to be a broken link, and it redirected me to the general "downloads" page, with the much-maligned 'smallish' 181 name August download buried toward the bottom of the page. I'm sure the Big (June) list is in there somewhere (SHIII/Ships?/Patches?/Game Play Mods?) - I know if I take the time to hunt around, I'll find it, and I will, but its a bit like pinning down the ferret under the blanket... It ain't easy or straight forward, and it sure as Hell ain't obvious.

Now, I'm no genius, I'll be the first to admit that, but it WOULD be helpful to us newbies if consideration could be given (by iabl?, SS? someone with an interest and current input) to ammend the current Readme file for MFM, or to put out an edit in the release notice at the top of the thread explaining the differences between the "display Class Names" englishnames.cfg tweaks and the "real ship names" additions, where to find both of the above, and what to do with them when you have them. (I note in passing that it appears at least one of these issues IS covered by iaml in a readme for the Beta Lite version).

I have a similar suggestion for the GWX 3.0 release notes at the top of THAT thread where it strongly tells SH3 Commander users (in bold, yellow, italics, no less!) NOT to use the malfunctions &/or Sabotage Mod, something that JScones says is Looooong since resolved.

Just some thunks to help make the best even better (from a noobie, user friendliness point of view).

frau kaleun · 01-25-11, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin40

uhmmmm...I noted that englishnames are pulled into the peri display...

I used Frau list and got the name in the peri display

I used MFMBeta list and got the name in the peri display

That's always been my assumption, but I haven't been on patrol long enough with the MFM and new list to confirm it.

Gryffon300 · 01-25-11, 09:59 AM

FK, I'm thinking of doing a quick & dirty scope ident name test.

Last night (post ammending the cfg list per your instructions), I got, "Medium Merchant 10" in the scope display. It was British, so my thinking is that it was an "old" list M10B. On the other hand, just before that I found a "Medium Merchant", showing Norwegian colour on the hull. So, my guess is that it was a "new" list M10X, and, prior to last night, would have been named in the scope as, "SHIP: M10X".

Now, here is my thought on a trial. If I go back into the .cfg list, and ammend all the suffix numbers in the "old" list by, say, adding a "Z", then if I ever get a "Tanker 13Z" show up in the scope, we will know that the scope display names are definately being drawn from the englishnames.cfg file.

If this proves to be the case, is there any value in retaining the numerical suffix, or are these invaluable in aiding quick(er) look-ups in the ship register for purposes of Manual firing solution calculation? (I had been considering going in and deleting all the suffixes, but hasten slowly, or, as I say to my XO all the time, "Measure twice, cut once!"

As a further thought, if the suffixes ARE of benefit in the id manual look-up, I would probably go back in and ADD suffixes to the "new" list to give them similar numerical identifiers, and so harmonise the display characteristics across the fleet. All 'in', or all 'out'. Thoughts, people?

Gryffon300 · 01-25-11, 12:28 PM

Just reporting back for a de-brief after patrol.

Couldn't help myself, I went ahead and modified the numerical suffixes in the 'old' list part of the englishnames.cfg - I added my 'Z' to anything with a number.

Had to go all the way to my patrol zone at AM34 before I encountered ANY ships (they must have heard The Terror of the Seas had put to sea again). Anyway, the first one I encounter is a British Medium Merchant, designated in the Scope, Uzo, ESB Ident Book and the Kapitan's Log (after I sunk her) as, you guessed it, "Medium Merchant 20Z". That pretty well nails it for me.

The thing I remain curios about, is that if I remove all suffixes, will the ESB take you to THAT ship (as it did in this case), or will it take you to a sample of the generic class, and then you have to do a hunt from there among all the 'Medium Merchants' in the Book? (I suspect not - it feels a bit like cheating, though, to have the ESB do the work - but I'm not complaining - a bit of larceny is fun.

)

frau kaleun · 01-25-11, 12:35 PM

I really have no idea for sure what happens with the Recog Manual, but I suspect that if there is an entry in it for every individual class, you'll get the entry for the correct class even if it's one of a dozen that display as "medium merchant." I don't think the game would pull up an entry based on a display name alone, but rather on the class. Of course I could be completely wrong, lol.

Gryffon300 · 01-27-11, 02:00 AM

Yes,Sailor Steve, I eventually got it.

The August 181 extra names download was not, as I assumed, 181 extra names, but the ENTIRE LIST PLUS 181 names, which I would have known if I had downloaded it and opened it and looked at the thing.

Your forebearance is appreciated. If its any consolation to you, I have spent hours trolling through the SHIII Downloads threads looking for the Big List, not realising that the August List REPLACED previous June & July downloads. So, my eyes are bleeding, and its all my fault. Mostly.

Gryffon300 · 01-27-11, 12:14 PM

Well, here's my moment of obsequiousness. Now, don't hit me. I want to talk about (says it really fast, hoping no-one will notice) "englishnames.cfg".

Ahhgh! Not again!

Sorry, but I've just spent many hours looking at lists of ship names and I figure I should spread the joy around. It WAS in fact fascinating, and gave me a little hint at the work involved in putting the original list out there, and the subsequent editing. WOW.

But, a few niggling uncertainties that I hope you won't mind looking into for me:-

1)- KF & SS, I'm ducking under my desk as I ask this, hoping not to have a horned helm thrown in my direction, but, KF stated in response to an earlier post,

Quote:

"But you don't need two entries for one class, so for M10A you want only one entry, either

M10A=Medium Merchant 10

or

M10A=Hog Islander

but not both. I don't think it makes any difference which you choose, pick whichever one you think will look cool when it shows up in the game."

(01-25-2011 09:58 AM)

I've had a reasonable hunt through the original and SS's August .cfg lists. The old list had a class designation, "KMSSHogIsland", with 160 ship names listed, including, of course, the namesake vessel, 'SS Hog Island'. On the other hand, the new SS list contains a listing for 'KMSSHogIsland' (slightly smaller at 135 names, but mostly identical, except, strangely, that it DOES NOT include the SS Hog Island for which the class was presumably named!?

)

But, the new SS cfg list ALSO includes, of course, the M10A list, (38 ships) with apparently no ship names in common with the new HogIsland class list, (Chickasaw & Chickasaw City get close, though). So, cringing slightly & wringing my hands in the best Dickensian immitation that I can muster as I say this, it would appear to my untutored eye that the two Class Lists in the new SS cfg are NOT interchangeable and shold BOTH be included in the SHIII/Data/Sea/englishnames.cfg file. ("M10A=Medium Merchant" & "Hog Islander=Hog Islander", or, alternatively, "Hog Islander=Medium Merchant"?)

And just where has the SS Hog Island got to, eh? Eh? Don't tell me The Hog caught religion and became the Hoosier!

2)- SS, So many mods and tweaks to the list!

I see where whole lists were re-designated (in the Header for e.g. LSS=KSS, or OTMST2 becomes GenericMerchantsAndTankers), some lists thus got wiped, others got added to or ships shuffled into or out of lists to and from existing lists, but one anomaly I don' get. The ships in the replaced KSS list seem to have vanished. I did a scan for the SS Bonifacio & SS Ciltvaria & couldn't spot them. Assume these 16 ships no longer listed?
Similarly, the ATug list has gone AWOL (but I did not scan as carefully for them, so they may simply have been ingested by other classes).
The NPL_KDF Class list (previously with 7 ships listed) now stands vacant of ship names. This is the only time this occurs, so seemed to be an anomoly. Delete?
Historically, were there ever any names given to S-Class subs?
Just as a note of personal interest, I now live near, and visit, the Algonquin National Park. Interesting to spot TWO ships - LTR SS Algonquin & KSSJ SS Algonquins. Would both ships have been contemporaneous, or would one have been named after the first was no longer in service/sunk?

Can I come out from under the desk now?

frau kaleun · 01-27-11, 12:38 PM

Not able to process all of your post ATM - however when it comes to what's in the Ship Names file vs. what's in the Englishnames.cfg, be aware that the Ship Names file is used ONLY by SH3 Commander. It has no affect whatsoever on gameplay when it comes to the ships you are currently spotting, or on what info appears onscreen when a newly encountered ship is ID'd. It's not a file that is used or accessed by SH3 at all.

The only time the Ship Names file has any affect on something displayed in the game is after a patrol is finished and you have exited the game, when Commander uses it to flesh out the patrol log for the completed patrol. After that the additional data drawn from it will be in the files that SH3 uses to display your patrol logs and will show up there if you look at them in the game. But the game does not use - or even need - the Ship Names file for anything.

01-25-11, 08:38 AM	#488
Gryffon300 Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 213 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Thanks again for the hints. Hey SS! I didn't say the TOTAL list was 'smallish', I was only referring to the August download of 181 names. Fair suck of the sauce bottle, mate! I had only seen passing references to the 11,000 + "real ship names" in various posts - I had never seen the actual list, or where to get it and what to do with it once I did. Then I saw Nemo7's copy of the June download over on post 52 in "Why is SHIII+GWX the best ever in the hisyory of the Universe" (or something like that). That turned out to be a broken link, and it redirected me to the general "downloads" page, with the much-maligned 'smallish' 181 name August download buried toward the bottom of the page. I'm sure the Big (June) list is in there somewhere (SHIII/Ships?/Patches?/Game Play Mods?) - I know if I take the time to hunt around, I'll find it, and I will, but its a bit like pinning down the ferret under the blanket... It ain't easy or straight forward, and it sure as Hell ain't obvious. Now, I'm no genius, I'll be the first to admit that, but it WOULD be helpful to us newbies if consideration could be given (by iabl?, SS? someone with an interest and current input) to ammend the current Readme file for MFM, or to put out an edit in the release notice at the top of the thread explaining the differences between the "display Class Names" englishnames.cfg tweaks and the "real ship names" additions, where to find both of the above, and what to do with them when you have them. (I note in passing that it appears at least one of these issues IS covered by iaml in a readme for the Beta Lite version). I have a similar suggestion for the GWX 3.0 release notes at the top of THAT thread where it strongly tells SH3 Commander users (in bold, yellow, italics, no less!) NOT to use the malfunctions &/or Sabotage Mod, something that JScones says is Looooong since resolved. Just some thunks to help make the best even better (from a noobie, user friendliness point of view). Last edited by Gryffon300; 01-25-11 at 12:31 PM.

01-24-11, 05:48 PM	#481
Gryffon300 Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 213 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Thanks, FK, that's fabulous. Getting close now. Ive noted many "duplicates", e.g. ;Iambecomes MF mod "L01B=Heavy Merchant 01" Your new "L01B=Heavy Merchant" I will assume that the numerical suffixes in the original list do not invalidate them being declared as "duplicates", and I will delete, for consistency's sake, the duplicates in the 'new' list, not the original. The only two other items that stuck out are: "AMM=Ammunition Ship" (original) and, "AM01A=Ammunition Ship" (new). I will assume that these are NOT duplicates and leave both in. The other one is, "M10A=Medium Merchant 10" (original) and, "M10A=Hog Islander" (new). I assume that these ARE duplicates, though, as I'm kinda tickled with the 'Hog' designation, I may just replace that one. Cool? Thanks again.

01-25-11, 09:59 AM	#490
Gryffon300 Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 213 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	FK, I'm thinking of doing a quick & dirty scope ident name test. Last night (post ammending the cfg list per your instructions), I got, "Medium Merchant 10" in the scope display. It was British, so my thinking is that it was an "old" list M10B. On the other hand, just before that I found a "Medium Merchant", showing Norwegian colour on the hull. So, my guess is that it was a "new" list M10X, and, prior to last night, would have been named in the scope as, "SHIP: M10X". Now, here is my thought on a trial. If I go back into the .cfg list, and ammend all the suffix numbers in the "old" list by, say, adding a "Z", then if I ever get a "Tanker 13Z" show up in the scope, we will know that the scope display names are definately being drawn from the englishnames.cfg file. If this proves to be the case, is there any value in retaining the numerical suffix, or are these invaluable in aiding quick(er) look-ups in the ship register for purposes of Manual firing solution calculation? (I had been considering going in and deleting all the suffixes, but hasten slowly, or, as I say to my XO all the time, "Measure twice, cut once!" As a further thought, if the suffixes ARE of benefit in the id manual look-up, I would probably go back in and ADD suffixes to the "new" list to give them similar numerical identifiers, and so harmonise the display characteristics across the fleet. All 'in', or all 'out'. Thoughts, people?

01-25-11, 12:28 PM	#491
Gryffon300 Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 213 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Just reporting back for a de-brief after patrol. Couldn't help myself, I went ahead and modified the numerical suffixes in the 'old' list part of the englishnames.cfg - I added my 'Z' to anything with a number. Had to go all the way to my patrol zone at AM34 before I encountered ANY ships (they must have heard The Terror of the Seas had put to sea again). Anyway, the first one I encounter is a British Medium Merchant, designated in the Scope, Uzo, ESB Ident Book and the Kapitan's Log (after I sunk her) as, you guessed it, "Medium Merchant 20Z". That pretty well nails it for me. The thing I remain curios about, is that if I remove all suffixes, will the ESB take you to THAT ship (as it did in this case), or will it take you to a sample of the generic class, and then you have to do a hunt from there among all the 'Medium Merchants' in the Book? (I suspect not - it feels a bit like cheating, though, to have the ESB do the work - but I'm not complaining - a bit of larceny is fun. )

01-25-11, 12:35 PM	#492
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	I really have no idea for sure what happens with the Recog Manual, but I suspect that if there is an entry in it for every individual class, you'll get the entry for the correct class even if it's one of a dozen that display as "medium merchant." I don't think the game would pull up an entry based on a display name alone, but rather on the class. Of course I could be completely wrong, lol.

01-27-11, 02:00 AM	#493
Gryffon300 Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 213 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Yes,Sailor Steve, I eventually got it. The August 181 extra names download was not, as I assumed, 181 extra names, but the ENTIRE LIST PLUS 181 names, which I would have known if I had downloaded it and opened it and looked at the thing. Your forebearance is appreciated. If its any consolation to you, I have spent hours trolling through the SHIII Downloads threads looking for the Big List, not realising that the August List REPLACED previous June & July downloads. So, my eyes are bleeding, and its all my fault. Mostly.

01-27-11, 12:38 PM	#495
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	Not able to process all of your post ATM - however when it comes to what's in the Ship Names file vs. what's in the Englishnames.cfg, be aware that the Ship Names file is used ONLY by SH3 Commander. It has no affect whatsoever on gameplay when it comes to the ships you are currently spotting, or on what info appears onscreen when a newly encountered ship is ID'd. It's not a file that is used or accessed by SH3 at all. The only time the Ship Names file has any affect on something displayed in the game is after a patrol is finished and you have exited the game, when Commander uses it to flesh out the patrol log for the completed patrol. After that the additional data drawn from it will be in the files that SH3 uses to display your patrol logs and will show up there if you look at them in the game. But the game does not use - or even need - the Ship Names file for anything.