Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

I saw this
and figured it fit in this thread.

It would also fit in this thread

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=230409

Markus

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Ukrainian journalist, 27, who chronicled Russian occupation dies in prison

Viktoriia Roshchyna disappeared in August 2023 in a part of Ukraine now occupied by Russian forces.

It took nine months for Russian authorities to confirm the journalist had been detained. They gave no reason.

This week, her father got a terse letter from the defence ministry in Moscow informing him that Viktoriia was dead, aged 27.

The document said the journalist’s body would be returned in one of the swaps organised by Russia and Ukraine for soldiers killed on the battlefield. The death date was given as 19 September.

Again, there was no explanation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0g29w45p1o

[mapuc]

So what is your standpoint on Zelensky's peace plan ?

The plan outlined by Zelensky consists of five key points:

1. Inviting Ukraine to join Nato

2. The strengthening of Ukrainian defence against Russian forces, including getting permission from allies to use their long-range weapons on Russian territory, and the continuation of Ukraine's military operations on Russian territory to avoid creation of the "buffer zones" in Ukraine

3. Containment of Russia via a non-nuclear strategic deterrent package deployed on Ukrainian soil

4. Joint protection by the US and the EU of Ukraine's critical natural resources and joint use of their economic potential

5. For the post-war period only: replacing some US troops stationed across Europe with Ukrainian troops

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0z8gg5v14o

My standpoints.
Number 1 Not a chance-The rules are very clear a candidate must not be in a conflict with another country
Number 2. Here I say Ukraine should be given green light
Number 3. What does this mean ?
Number 4. The West may be interested in what Ukraine have in the underground. Not that much interested that they would put boots on the ground.
Number 5. Not gonna happen.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

So what is your standpoint on Zelensky's peace plan ?

That's not a peace plan Markus it says right in the article it is a victory plan.


Pretty much agree with your conclusions though.


BTW I'd guess that number three means some kind of weaponry such as non nuclear ballistic missiles and perhaps some anti-missile systems like Israels Iron Dome or similar.

[Dargo]

The plan outlined by Zelenskyy consists of five key points:

1. Inviting Ukraine to join Nato
2. The strengthening of Ukrainian defence against Russian forces, including getting permission from allies to use their long-range weapons on Russian territory, and the continuation of Ukraine's military operations on Russian territory to avoid creation of the "buffer zones" in Ukraine
3. Containment of Russia via a non-nuclear strategic deterrent package deployed on Ukrainian soil
4. Joint protection by the US and the EU of Ukraine's critical natural resources and joint use of their economic potential
5. For the post-war period only: replacing some US troops stationed across Europe with Ukrainian troops

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte just announced that this Ukraine victory plan will be in NATO future planning.


Think the butthurt is great in the Kremlin, I can only say MH-17 Karma.

[Dargo]

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

Didn't Ukraine withdraw the Abrams they got from USA away from the battlefield ? Now they will receive additional Abrams MBT according to this video clip:



Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Didn't Ukraine withdraw the Abrams they got from USA away from the battlefield ? Now they will receive additional Abrams MBT according to this video clip:
Markus

As of September 15, roughly 2/3rds (20 out of 31) of all M1A1SA tanks in Ukraine were either destroyed, captured or disabled. The Abrams had problems in part because Russian drone warfare has made it too difficult for them to operate without detection or coming under attack. Those weapons have made it more difficult for Ukraine to protect the tanks when they are quickly detected and hunted by Russian drones or rounds.

Ukrainian M1 Abrams Tanks Get Elaborate ‘Cope Cages,’ Soviet Explosive Reactive Armor

The U.S.supplied M1A1SA have recently been in the thick of the action, including contributing to the Ukrainian incursion into Russia’s Kursk region. Also involved have been examples of Ukraine’s other higher-end tank types, including the Challenger 2, Leopard 2, and T-80.

[mapuc]

Everyone have hopes. However hopes is one thing, while reality is an another story



I would not overrule an Ukrainian win, but right now this is far from becoming true.

Markus

[Reece]

Yes it's a nice thought but unfortunately that is all it is!!

I certainly wish them well and hope eventually Ukraine gets back their land.
Since N.Korean troops are entering the war to aid Russia I feel it only fair for western troops to join the fight on Ukraine's side.

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Isn't that a no-brainer? In fact I am quite certain that in all secrecy they are already developing these. Not to do preparations for it would be negligent.

[FOCUS] Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is indirectly threatening to rearm his country with nuclear weapons if it cannot become a member of NATO. “What way out do we have? Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons or we will have to be in some kind of alliance,” he said at a press conference in Brussels. He added that he was not aware of any functioning alliances other than NATO.
With regard to possible resistance from the USA to Ukraine's NATO membership, Selensky explained that he had already spoken to Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump about the issue. And he thought that he had understood him in this case. Ukraine wants NATO and not nuclear weapons, he emphasized.

Selensky expressed no understanding for American concerns that inviting Ukraine to join NATO could inadvertently draw the United States into a war. “An invitation is a pre-emptive step to show that it is not Putin who is changing the world,” he said, referring to the Russian president's war policy.

Selensky explained the idea of a possible nuclear rearmament of Ukraine with the failure of the so-called Budapest Memorandum from 1994, in which Ukraine committed to handing over the Soviet nuclear weapons stored on its territory to Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In return, the nuclear weapons states Russia, the USA and Great Britain confirmed that they would respect Ukraine's independence and borders and would not threaten the country with nuclear weapons.

However, recent years have shown that the document did not function as a security guarantee. Since Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula of Crimea, the topic of nuclear rearmament has therefore repeatedly come up in the Ukrainian debate. Shortly before the Russian invasion in 2022, Zelensky also hinted during an appearance at the Munich Security Conference that his country could consider nuclear rearmament.
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A NATO membership is ruled out for me as long as the war is going on. It would brinn NATO into open war with Russia immediartely, and it would violates NATO's own statutes. The slow resupplying with ammo and weapons must dramatically improve, however, and the weapons range limitation has to be scrapped immediately.

[Rockstar]

The mighty YouTube algorithm dropped this commentator in my feed. Pretty good commentary, as I always believed the goal was never a quick expulsion of Russian troops from Ukraine rather a long term goal to break Russia.

Sorry if the video has been posted already, kinda hard to keep up sometimes.