Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[mapuc]

"Russian forces should be in a position to launch an attack on NATO by the end of this decade at the latest," Bruno Kahl told a parliamentary committee in Berlin.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-824501

I have difficult in believing this-No way Russia can build up a military strength they had before the invasion of Ukraine, before 2030.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

NATO will not be intimidated by Russia's threats, Rutte says at Ukraine mission HQ

WIESBADEN, Germany (Reuters) - NATO will not be cowed by Russian threats but keep up its strong support of Kyiv, NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte said on his first visit to the alliance's Ukraine mission in Wiesbaden, set to take over the coordination of military aid from the U.S.

"The message (to Russian President Vladimir Putin) is that we will continue, that we will do what's necessary to make sure that he will not get his way, that Ukraine will prevail," he told Reuters in a joint interview with German public radio Hessischer Rundfunk on Monday.

Rutte spoke at Clay Barracks, the U.S. base hosting the headquarters of the new mission, dubbed NATO Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine (NSATU), which will gradually assume the coordination of Western military aid to Kyiv.

The move is widely seen as an effort to safeguard the aid mechanism against a possible return of NATO critic Donald Trump to the White House. Republican Trump is running against Democrat Kamala Harris in the Nov. 5 U.S. election. Diplomats, however, acknowledge that the handover of military aid coordination to NATO may have a limited effect given that the U.S. is NATO's dominant power and provides the majority of arms to Ukraine.

Speaking in one of 12 green tents that house NSATU as it is built up, Rutte earlier on Monday addressed allied troops from more than a dozen nations already working on the mission that will, at a later stage, move into a nearby hangar and be complemented by Ukrainian troops.

NSATU is expected to have a total strength of some 700 personnel, including troops stationed at NATO's military headquarters SHAPE in Belgium and at logistics hubs in Poland and Romania.

The Wiesbaden base is also home to the U.S. unit in charge of long-range missiles that Washington will deploy to Germany temporarily from 2026, to counter what both countries describe as a threat posed by Russian missiles stationed as close as Kaliningrad, some 500 kilometres (311 miles) from Berlin.

On his first visit to Germany as NATO chief, Rutte welcomed the step that has been denounced as a provocation by Russia and sparked a heated debate in Chancellor Olaf Scholz's Social-Democrat Party.

Rutte, who was prime minister of the Netherlands from 2010 until 2024, said it was crucial for NATO to have the full range of capabilities needed to deter a Russian threat.

"We are NATO. We are a defensive alliance, we are not offensive. We are not interested in capturing any part of any other country outside NATO territory," he said.

"As this democratic alliance, the strongest military alliance in world history, serving 1 billion people, we stand ready to confront any threat. We will never get intimidated by our adversaries."

U.S. President Joe Biden and Scholz announced the deployment of the missiles on the sidelines of the NATO summit in July, describing it as a stopgap solution until Germany, France and several other European countries have developed their own missiles with a similar range.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cb866c44&ei=76

[mapuc]

Maybe this video is a joke



Edit
Latest input from this Danish military expert

End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I have difficult in believing this-No way Russia can build up a military strength they had before the invasion of Ukraine, before 2030.

I dont say they can, but I remind of that their economy has been fully transformed to war production since then - and cannot steam on without war production.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I dont say they can, but I remind of that their economy has been fully transformed to war production since then - and cannot steam on without war production.

The reason to my comment was based on following:

1. Russia is under heavy embargo-They get some stuff from China, India and Iran-But it ain't enough and it isn't technology from the West.
2. Russia and its military complex is heavily corrupted
3. The fatigue among the Russians is increasing. Another war would most likely kickstart a riot/demonstration in every Russian city=End of Putins regime.
4. Re-train 2-3½ million men to its former strength would take longer than 6 years.
In order to fight a war against NATO Russia need 50 times or more equipment and well trained soldiers.

Markus

[Catfish]

If North Korea sends soldiers (artillery and personnel) to Russia to fight Ukraine, this is the moment for the west to put some boots on the ground as well.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

If North Korea sends soldiers (artillery and personnel) to Russia to fight Ukraine, this is the moment for the west to put some boots on the ground as well.

Never gonna happen-The West will do anything to not cross their own red line.

Otherwise you're right-Ukraine fighting two country is unfair and NATO should put boots on the ground.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

1. Russia is under heavy embargo-They get some stuff from China, India and Iran-But it ain't enough and it isn't technology from the West.

So its not stuff from the West. So what? They can build badda-boom-bang stuff without it. Even drones. They outproduce Ukraine in drone numbers now, becaseu they do it ion an industril level.

2. Russia and its military complex is heavily corrupted

So what? It always was this way, it always will be this way. Hasn't stopped them from going into the CSSR, Poland, Hungary, Afghanistan, Georgien, Chechnya, Syria, Crimea, Ukraone. Even into the West itself. We already are under attack by them, it was recently reveale din German media that thy tried to blow upo airplanes in flights from Dreseden and/or Leipzig, it was by random c hance that the bombs - I forgot, either were found early, and blew up prematurely before boarding. There are so many ways Russia could wage onconventional war again st the West. And it already does. Sicne many, many years. And we still act as if it were not the case.

I make this clear in words, as far as I am concerned we are at war with Russia, and since many years, and Russia started it. One can explain why it did, and how things got there, but explanations are no excuses.

We. Are. At. War. With. Russia. By Russia's choice.

3. The fatigue among the Russians is increasing. Another war would most likely kickstart a riot/demonstration in every Russian city=End of Putins regime.

No, i never saw that and still do not see that. Putin'S narrative is being believed. The war is more supported than three years ago. The regime sits safe in the saddle.

4. Re-train 2-3½ million men to its former strength would take longer than 6 years.
In order to fight a war against NATO Russia need 50 times or more equipment and well trained soldiers.

Not necessarily, if it only wants to cause destruction, not conquest.

High tech societies have a big vulnerabilty: they are very vulnerable and depending. And the West has more precious constyl cities and industry than Russia, so the West has more to lose. We can afford limited war with Russia. We are inferior to their way of uncovnetional warfare. We cannot afford strategic nuclear war . It comes down to Sting: I hope that Russians love their children too. Of that I am not convinced. In any case, their famous Russian fatalistic attitude pisses me off.

[Skybird]

German language:

https://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos...e25290039.html

[mapuc]

^^ Thank you for your input Marc.
I fully agree with the fact that NATO is at war with Russia and right now NATO fight them by proxy...only a matter of time before it will go into a direct conflict.

Markus

[Skybird]

On the plane bomb incident I mentioned:

[Westfälische Nachrichten] According to the Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Germany narrowly escaped a plane crash in July when an air freight parcel caught fire, possibly initiated by Russia. It was only thanks to a lucky coincidence that the parcel caught fire on the ground at the DHL logistics center in Leipzig and not during the flight, said the President of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Thomas Haldenwang, during a public questioning of the German secret services in the Bundestag. Otherwise there would have been a crash.
(...)
According to dpa information, the fortunate coincidence was that the onward flight of the cargo package from the Baltic States was delayed in Leipzig. The package contained an incendiary device that ignited there and set fire to a freight container. Security circles assume that the incident is connected to Russian sabotage.
---------------

There have been many acts of suspected Russian sabotage in Germany, including fires in factories and industrial compounds, infiltation of the IT and communication nets and attemnpts to manipulate traffic management grids, critical infrastructure, as well as many attacks on the IT systems of hospitalsand public adminstraiton offices.

Some of these Russian attacks included the potential for many deaths.

We were LUCKY so far. Just that - lucky. Not clever of especially capable - lucky. Where intel information helped in preventing the worst, usually it comes from "foreign services". The german ones have been so much castrated by legal regulations that by now they are practically impotent. Thank you, dear US services. You saved our bottoms many times by now. And at least some of us know and appreciate that.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Catfish

If North Korea sends soldiers (artillery and personnel) to Russia to fight Ukraine, this is the moment for the west to put some boots on the ground as well.

I saw this



and figured it fit in this thread.

[Reece]

Little fat boy needs a spanking!!

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Skybird

On the plane bomb incident I mentioned:


… There have been many acts of suspected Russian sabotage in Germany, including fires in factories and industrial compounds, infiltation of the IT and communication nets and attemnpts to manipulate traffic management grids, critical infrastructure, as well as many attacks on the IT systems of hospitalsand public adminstraiton offices.

Read a Foreign Policy article stating there have been 11 attempts to break into Finlands water supply towers. No evidence who is doing it only speculation. It could be the war is extending beyond Ukraine’s borders.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/07/26...ter-treatment/