SUBSIM SH4 Patch 1.2 Bug & Discussion Thread

[DragonRR1]

Silent Hunter 4 - Bug list v4d

Bug list compiled by Dragon (DragonRR1)
The latest version of this list will be posted in this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112193

Changelog 4d
Updated 24) More information
Updated 29) More information
Updated 51) More information
Updated a) More information
Updated b) More information - escalated
Updated e) More information
Updated g) More information
Updated j) More information- escalated
Updated k) More information
Updated n) More information
Updated p) More information
Added issue 81)
Escalated provisional item on rudder damage to issue 80)
Escalated provisional item on the bridge compass to issue 82)
Added provisional issue q)
Added provisional issue r)
Updated the Query section with a link for posting.


Changelog 4c
Updated 1) Workaround/fix by Ducimus
Updated 60) More information
Updated 75) Confirmation
Added issue 78)
Added issue 79)

Changelog 4b
Updated 6) More information
Updated 20) More information
Fixed mod link in 23)
Updated 23) More information
Updated 28) More information
Added player note issue 28)
Updated 51) More information
Updated 61) More information
Combined issue 70) with issue 28)
Added provisional issue o)
Removed some queries

Changelog 4a+
Updated 20) More information
Updated 56) More information
Updated 72) More information
Updated 47) More information
Updated 45) More information
Updated 23) More information
Added issue 73)
Added issue 74)
Added issue 77)
Escalated 2 no. Provisional issues to issues 75) and 76)
Added 6 no. Provisional issues
Added Player help/information section.

Changelog 4
Added an issue 72)
Removed issue 23) - see 29)
Issue 25) is now combined with issue 37)
Added link - issue 6)
Added note - issue 25)
Added 6 no. provisional issues
Updated 23) - more information.
Updated 23) - Partial workaround.

Changelog 3e-3f
Moved a provisional issue to confirmed issue 71)
Added 2 Provisional issues – Crew recruitment problems and Default Ensigns missing
More information added to 29) The deck gun and AA gun can be repaired but only when crewed.

Changelog 3d-3e
Added “Query” section at end – NEED FEEDBACK!!
Issue 11) has been removed.. Issue 31) provides more detailed information.
Issue 63) removed.
Updated 6), 14), 29), 30), 31) 35) 46) and 69) with additional information
Added possible mod fix for 2)
Item 27) and 37) wording changed.
Moved a provisional item to confirmed issue 69)
Added 1 provisional item
Added issue 70)

Changelog 3c-3d
4 more bugs added 65) 66) 67) & 68)
Provisional bug escalated
Severity of item 34) changed.

Changelog 3b – 3c
5 more bugs added 60), 61) 62) 63) & 64)
Improved readability.
Added comment on 23)
Modified comment on 34)
More supporting information added to 36)
Added provisional bug section

Changelog 3 – 3b:
More information given
Additional issues 58, 59 added
Struck through the more dubious bugs or where there is little or no confirmation
Reduced duplication.
Moved comments and added square brackets for readability.

Please note:
Most bugs listed here have been mentioned by more than one poster.
Known protection bugs have not been listed nor have probable hardware/driver issues.
There may be duplicates.
The list is not ordered
I have not experienced all the bugs listed.


1) When crossing the International Date Line from Pearl to Japan the attack screen bug still happens. No Torpedo tracking once you cross the line.
The following provides a workaround/fix: - credit to - Ducimus
At the top of your data/UPCData/UPCCampaignData/flotillas.upc file you should see the departure co-ordinates for Pearl Harbor. Change the DepartureDescriptionOut1 to the following:
DepartureDescriptionOut1= 21438780, 3367405, 270.000000

2) Radar still doesn't work when heading South 90deg to 270deg.
[There is a possible mod workaround and more information for this issue here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=508289#post508289 ]

3) I noticed a minor rendering issue with 1.2: Seems the TBT view doesn’t scale to the resolution when not using 1024x768. There is a little part on top showing the scene behind the screen in 1280x1024. The bearing display is wrong, too.
[There is an error in the TBT section of the menu file. Mod fix for widescreen users here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112400 ]

4) Ship dimensions are still faulty = incorrect firing data (range) for TDC for some ships.

5) Removed.

6) Patch 1.2, After installing the new patch the DD's don’t often use their searchlights anymore (since 1.1)!
[Confirmed in several posts.]
[One user has posted that there is an “on/off” problem with the searchlights, he found the switching off volumetric fog fixed the problem.]
See also 23)
Kakemann in this thread appears to have a full description of the issue which basically involves weather rather then time of day:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=520452&postcount=1

7) Removed.

8) Chronometer still doesn’t work as described in the manual. “The Chronometer bug”

9) White outline along the hull of the sub when looking down through the external camera. Very noticeable on railings if sub is submerged to conning tower.

10) Sun shines still through objects, now even with full intensity.

11) Removed.

12) Removed.

13) Removed

14) Dive planes don’t even come down anymore after a few dives and surfaces. Halfway through a patrol the bow planes look inverted and refuse to move.
[Dragon – not seen this, Subman1 – not seen this.]
[This is probably linked to issue 70) saving the game when submerged]

15) Many users report CTD errors, in the navmap, after ending a patrol etc.
[Dragon – no CTD since fresh install V1.2]

16) I've got a merchant here; that I put a torpedo into, stopping it's engines, but it still continues on at about 4 knts, despite a heavy list to Starboard.
[There is confusion on this issue. It is difficult to say whether there is a problem with this or not]

17) Sounds are still coming from a 180 degree wrong direction. Situation awareness suffers when submerged and evading escorts.
[Apparently this is a bug in SH3 too.]

18) Combined with 14.)

19) Can someone confirm if the SD radar is indeed fixed? As far as I can tell it is still detecting ships but now it does not detect aircraft at all. I just got bombed by a couple flying boats while I sat there watching the SD radar in different ranges and they did not show up at all. With the S-18 sub it doesn’t turn on.
[Feature request – more realistic radar. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112950 ]
[Possible mod workaround/more information here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=508289#post508289 ]

20) Hydrophones still do not work at periscope depth.
Jungman wrote:
Change a value -9 to -4 inside Sensors_sub_US.sim the MaxSensorHeight of the hydrophones. Now you can hear it yourself and your crew. This allows it to work in more shallow water. See various threads. Easy fix. Some changed it less, some changed all three ocurrances.
See Documis FTT Mod for an exact answer to what works best all around for all submarines. They have different sizes. Never proven if devs wanted this as a feature, or IRL you could use Hyrophones at shallow depth. After all, the Escorts hunting you use them on the surface. We agreee you should be able to use them at periscope depth.
Bane pointed out that the hydrophones on a Gar class boat seem to work correctly at periscope depth, although the range seemed short.

21) Sound bugs still present with "Realistic Sound Travel" enabled (e.g., popping sounds when firing AA guns, explosion sounds cut off, slight delay in deck gun sound, etc..

22) We now have approx a 9.7X Magnification attack scope. (Should be 6X)

23) All AI needs tweaking, too often ships all come to a stop and muddle around. Destroyers guarding merchants and especially in task forces seem somewhat uninterested in firing back – see this thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112904 and this http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112853
Another reference to the same problem here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/6101003455?r=9721025455#9721025455
Another here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/2721069455
[I personally wonder if the problem is to do with overly sensitive friendly fire tests by the AI. Tater queried whether poor weather conditions play a part]
Early war AI doesn’t see the periscope very often, At night searchlights don’t lock on – feature or bug?
There is a partial workaround mod for “lazy destroyers” however the author suggests that there is a hard coded problem:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113232
Updated version of Kakemann’s mod here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=517755#post517755
AI in ports, for example if a ship Japanese ship is torpedoed is also very passive.

24) Neat mechanical ticking sound when using the TDC is gone. Bring it back. AVGWarhawk reports that the ticking is still present.

25) Combined with issue 37)

26) Combined with 8)

27) Widescreen users get a cropped rather than expanded image. TBT & periscope scaling bitmap masks appear to be inaccurate – does this break the ability to manual launch torpedos?
[see also 3) ]

28) Save game issues:
NOTE: With patch 1.2 it is suggested that players save the game only when on the surface and not near enemy shipping.
External viewable damage to subs vanishes on a savegame load. Speed settings and other settings not remembered, crew asleep when they weren’t before, fatigued crew. One player has mentioned that the radio repeats news reports and events from the start of the patrol including log entries.
Saving the game when underwater is problematic and not recommended. There is a confirmed issue that a reload of an underwater save results in the dive planes being reversed.

29) The deck and AA guns cannot be completely repaired by damage crew. The final 1% of the repair can only be done when the weapon is crewed. This explains the odd post where someone would claim that the deck gun in particular had been repaired. The length of time required to repair the remaining 1% seems out of proportion.Can we get a response from the devs on this feature or bug?

30) There is no obvious visual way to ascertain true damage to the sub.
[This based on the assumption that there is hidden damage done to the sub which is only repairable with a refit]

31) Transparency problems: The ghost crew issue - crew are slightly transparent all the time with full settings and very transparent in fog. The conning tower is transparent or semi transparent when using the periscope. Note that the crew transparency issue at least is true even if the new volumetric fog option is unchecked.

32) Anomalies with torpedo damage... may be a "feature". Example 8 torpedoes + deck gun shots sink a merchant, 5 deck gun shots or less to destroy a destroyer. Stuck torpedo outside sub – mentioned by Subman1?

33) Feature request: Buttons still missing like weather, rank, how long distance at this speed, id target.

34) “The Message log delay problem.”
[There is at least one mod for this and a user can select messages sent as default rather than show all messages. The majority of people say that the delay is now small 1-2 secs]

35) The sub not responding to waves correctly especially in rough seas “Sub on rails”. The wake behind the sub and other ships, especially in rough seas, floats above the waves and therefore looks like it’s in the wrong place.

36) Possible problem with torpedo detonation choices. Some users report they are reversed, Akdavis – Magnetic detonators do not work. Also the detonation type chosen resets. Akdavis mentions:
“Something is fundamentally wrong with torpedoes and/or ship hit boxes. Magnetic influence setting seems to have no real effect. Both settings yield identical results.”
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112193&page=15

37) Feature request - Please provide the ability to open all tube doors with sound effect.
[There is a mod which does fix/workaround his issue]

38) Fix the radar and sonar.
[There may be a mod fix for this.. ]

39) Campaign retirement – feature or bug? Suggestion that it should be optional.

40) Aircraft. the skies are full of them! Far too many attacks.
[There is a workaround for this in the subsim mods forum.]

41) Aircraft flight model – Collide with mountains rather easily and there is a tendency for them to swoop rather low during attack runs.

42) Graphical flashes on the ocean.

43) Rotating hydrophone doesn’t do a full rotation and it doesn’t rotate underwater?

44) You can’t click on crew members to go to their station – like you could in SH3.

45) Crew sometimes don’t seem to verbally acknowledge orders.
Sound man does not call out when a depth charge is dropped in the water.
Sound man does not report when a destroyer is pinging the sub.

46) Clouds are far too speedy. Also clouds sometimes don’t slow down when dropping out of accelerated time.
[Possible Mod fix for this.]

47) Pilot bailouts are reported as merchant contacts, as are lifeboats.
Note: Sampans, life boats and even downed pilots are picked up as contacts by the hydrophone. None of these have engines, needs fixing.
In addition it appears that surface radar picks up Sampans which shouldn’t be radar reflective?

48) Sound for lifeboats rubbing against sub sound like a destroyer hitting the sub.

49) Pencil on Navmap doesn’t allow note entry

50) AA gun crew can get injured even when not at the AA gun if the AA gun gets damaged.

51) Repetitive patrols still get assigned.
[There is some discussion as to whether this is due to having infinite fuel on]
One user reports here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=520431&postcount=417 that he still had repetitive missions without infinite fuel on. AVGWarhawk recommends completing all mission objectives and in particular radioing in to report, for example radio in after finding a convoy when it is listed as an objective.

52) Patrols do not suggest how long you need to stay on station unlike SH3.

54) The AA gun view is often blocked by conning tower walls.

55) Chronometer pops up after 256 time compression for no apparent reason.

56) A number of users report that despite owning the game they are experiencing the protection system “bugs”. Many users report crewmembers eyes vanish.
Many users report the striped map problem, screenshot here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=504941&postcount=1
[I own the game, do not use any no-cd or other anti-protection systems and have seen the missing eyes issue]

57) Is the Torpedo depth gauge running in metric when imperial settings are used?.
[Users report that assuming the TDC is running in metric allows them to hit on target\]

58) Graphics – the rev counters don’t work.

59) Torpedoes are not automatically loaded at base nor is there a reminder.

60) There appears to be some problem with the crew using certain deck guns especially when switching from aft to fore – no slots for crew.
[Not verified although I have seen this mentioned more than once]
Confirmation screenshot here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=525401&postcount=447 although this shows an inability to man either deck gun with dual deck guns.

61) A few people have mentioned that they sometimes can’t end a patrol latest here although tycho102 was using a mod http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112193&page=15
[It is possible that their home port has been moved without them noticing]
Some users mention that there is no notification that their home port has been changed.

62) Radio messages can be received underwater.

63) Removed.

64) Some shipping does not stop following loss of all props & rudder.

65) Patrol Log book appears to contain internal games names for ships sunk rather than “Medium Old Tanker” etc..

66) Log book does not track items correctly – all ships sunk at the same time and date for example.

67) When SD radar fitted there is no A scope display – confirmed.

68) Air search radar on Japanese ships is detecting surface targets including the sub arising in unrealistic sub detection in the early war period 1942-43. More here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112994, http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112684

69) Watch officer sometimes freezes up with arms outstretched – confirmed by another user. Picture here:
[ http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=512457#post512457%5D ]

70) Combined with 28)

71) Confirmed issue: A damage only crew can be recruited at port allowing for more than the historical maximum number of personnel on board.

72) Confirmed issue: Deck and AA guns problems:
With crew assigned to the deck or AA guns they will fire at any target regardless of the weather conditions (Note that it isn’t always possible to get the crew to man the deck gun in rough seas).
The player can fire the deck and AA guns manually without an assigned crew.
Regardless of weather conditions AND regardless of whether the desk or AA guns have crew assigned the player is able to manually fire. According to the file for each boat the maximum wind speed allowed is 7m/s.

73) Some ship weapons are unable to fire:
The Subchaser is unable to fire its main gun at all. If you mod the Subchaser to have a second gun in a raised position where the AA gun is it will fire this gun.
The Akizuki DD has a similar issue, of the four guns it has only the two guns on the raised platforms actually fire.

74) It is well known that CTRL+N resets the weather – feature or bug?

75) Egan reports an issue where the destruction/damage of the rear dive plane transmission actually affects the rudder. The sub is still able to dive (at the same speed) but not turn. Issue confirmed by Bane.

76) Crew port recruitment issues: No CPOs with command specialization are listed/recruitable, no junior petty officers with guns specialization are listed/recruitable, no seaman apprentices are listed/recruitable.

77) The follow nearest contact button doesn’t light up when selected although the sonar man does follow the contact.

78) Unless the deck and AA guns are manned there is no way to tell what the ammo reserves actually are.

79) There isn’t any obvious way to tell the gun crews what ammo they should be using.

80) Rudder not shown on damage screen, is it possible for it to be destroyed without notification?
Mcoca: Confirmed issue – plus once destroyed it cannot be repaired even after a refit, savegames, screenshots available.

81) When the boat is rammed by a destroyer (for example) the destroyer generally comes of worse and often explodes posts here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/8251011855

82) The bridge compass on the Gar class and possibly other subs if off by 90 degrees.
Mcoca: confirmed plus Gato boat has the same problem and compasses in the control room don’t work


Provisional not included, need confirmation:

a) There should be Ensigns by default with the boat’s starting crew. The only Ensign on board is in the 1st watch sensors compartment.
Skweetis has commented that the original poster may have been looking at surface vessels...

b) Escalated to issue 80)

c) Planes are too easily destroyed.. Possibly true but their numbers are so great they need to be!

d) It is common to see torpedoes blowing up early – is this a feature? Comments so far are that this is realistic but the torpedoes which do blow up are not reported as duds.

e) Crewmember’s head through roof! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=514202&postcount=335
Skweetis suggests that this applies only to boats without a hatch – S class boats, Porpoise

f) S-class boat: The left hand dive operator animation shows the operator turning the wheel, the right hand dive operator’s wheel I stuck!

g) The main or observation periscope does not rotate in external view, always points forward.
Mcoca: Confirmed – both scopes.

h) 1280x720 resolution is not available/doesn’t work.

i) There is no visible crew on the deck of the Coastal Composite Freighter and the Small Split Freighter

j) Escalated to issue 82)

k) The radar defaults to focus mode when the player moves to one of the displays.
Confirmed by Skweetis and AVGWarhawk and Mcoca although most suggest this isn’t really an issue.

l) Some boats have no second man at the right hand dive planes station but rather somewhere else in the station. The slot gets filled only when battlestations is selected.
Gar class boat left dive plane indicator points to dive when surfacing, right hand indicator mirrors so it points to nothing.
Gar class boat – crewman MAY rotate the wheels the wrong way.

m) If you leave the AA gun stations as the boat goes underwater the crew can be seen manning the AA gun underwater from the external view.

n) Surface radar sweeps only at up to around 8x time compression (may be system dependent) at higher speeds the radar turns off.
Mcoca: Confirmed however noticed at higher speeds, new contacts are reported, older contacts stop updating.

o) Event camera, when showing the sub being attacked by planes, often shows the sub 90 degrees from it’s own wake or sticking up out of the water before everything pops back into position.

p) the camera in the conning tower tilts the opposite of the motion of the boat. When diving, the camera tilts down aftward, when surfacing the camera tilts up Aftward. If you stand facing the ladder to the bridge – you are facing starboard. When diving the conning tower SHOULD appear to tilt downward on your left (which is the bow of the boat) instead the effect is reversed. Noted on the porpoise and salmon classes.

q) Missing sounds: Reported by Adm. Ahab. A number if posters have claimed that some sounds, pipes breaking, sparks, damage are missing. Ahab mentions that he has an X-Fi but tried using on board realtek which made no difference.

r) Tomaz reports mission bugs:
Photo Surabaya - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114284 the thread includes are workaround.
The battle of Midway - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114330 the thread includes a POSSIBLE workaround.


Query:

If anyone knows of any workarounds or mods which fix any of the issues above please provide links and I’ll include them in the next (exciting instalment) please post any fixes/workarounds confirmations here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114115
Thanks to the posters there for their assistance and support!


Player help/Information:

Many users report that they have CTDs with patch 1.2. Many, but not all, of these users have found that the following steps have helped to removed the CTDs (myself included)
1. Uninstall SH4 using the uninstaller.
2. Check to see whether the SH4 game folder still exists, if it does delete it.
3. Completely delete the SH4 user folder here C:\Documents and Settings\yourname\My Documents\SH4.
4. Reinstall SH4. Do not run it.
5. Apply only patch 1.2, if the CTD still persists go back to step 1 and try 1.1 patch followed by 1.2.

Running the game with a NOCD crack is KNOWN to cause issues! Even if the game appears to work flawlessly you will almost certainly get issues like, striped nav maps, 2d crewmembers, headless bodies, inability to launch torpedoes at random times, problems with crash diving and keyboard shortcuts. Note to Devs - there is still a probable issue with protection kicking in for clean players.

There is an explanation of crew efficiency by a developer here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=514823&postcount=4

Thanks for the PMs of support peeps, you know who you are

I need confirmation of the remaining provisional issues so that they can be either removed or escalated

[Capt. Shark Bait]

game save bug? i've just tried several saves, the largest being just over 20MB, and the last tried at around 15MB, which resulted in a not responding in taskman, and where 2 i tried i had to restart cuz SH4 seems to have locked up. out of a total of 15 saves, didn't try every one of them, but an earlier save will load, being smaller in the KB range. or, could it be the over all number of saves? these saves are all surface. also, i've been getting taking damage when i was able to load saves.

[Jace11]

CVEAkitsu modelhas a problem with the rudder. When in amidships position the rudder is under the boat as it should be. When the CVEAkitsu enters a turn to port or starboard the rudder leaves the ship and floats about 20 m to port or starboard. Suggest a problem with the dat file model, center of rotation for rudder is the cause of this floating weirdness..

[TheTrueHorror]

I am having the CTD problem when completing a mission (on Vista). As soon as I get within range of the home docks I CTD. This is happening on the first career mission, and I am not sure that I will be able to play the game at all.

[The General]

Hey, does anybody remember in some of the screenshots that came out before SH4's release there was what appeared to be a depth of field effect i.e. objects in the background of the one your looking at are out of focus. You see it in lots of games these days but my version of SH4 doesn't seem to have it. Has anybody seen this effect in their version or did the the Devs decide not to implement it?

[Bane]

These are for S-class boats:

1. Using the position of the periscopes as a reference the engine sounds come from the bow of the boat when in the command room. They come from the stern when on the bridge.

2. The 'Man the AA Gun' button is on and cannot be turned off even though there is no AA gun on the boat. The button should be grayed out.

3. All the Aux. Ballast and compressed air (?) dials in the command room (18 of them in a big cluster) point to 12 o'clock, rotate in unison clockwise a seemingly random amount around the dial and then return to the 12 o'clock position. This repeats every couple of seconds.

[Stary Wuj]

Textures flickering on distant object!

More info: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112382

Ugly bug, ATI and Nvidia newest graphic cards.

We know: It occurs with range (disappears zoomed in)
Not a graphic option
Damage = 0 does reduce it on some ships
Its not a normal map, cause I removed the normal maps from the yamato and although the ship looked a bit weird (light coloured) the warping was still there.

Best Regards

Koci

[huevo]

CTD when total tonnage sank over 100000 and returning to base from patrol off Japan. first ever ctd experienced when running on time compresion and daylight nav map changes to night time settings.


Asus P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe, E6600, 8800GTX 1280x1024 60~70fps, X-fi, 2GB ram, no overclocking.

[tomoose]

Is there any indication from the developers that another Patch is being worked on? It would be nice to know.

[The General]

I think another patch is on its way. SH4 is dangerously close to being the fantastic sim it should've been in the first place. The Devs must wanna complete their task.

On the subject of the sim in its current state. I rolled back my GFX card driver and the game actually runs a bit better. Less exploded polygons etc. So, if anyone is experiencing similar problems with a Nvidia 7600 GT, I recommend giving it a try.

On the disappearing spotlights etc. You can see the light on the water's surface at the edge of the screen when the ships themselves are off-screen. Which means the spotights are working, just not when anything's on-screen. Very bizarre.

[Elder-Pirate]

I don't really blame the SH4 Devs for all these buggy happenings as I'm sure they must be faithfull to their big bosses.......But that is another evil story.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

i'd also like to see AA/AF put back in and res @ 1280*1024. after all, if it's in the drop down menu in graphics....

[fire-fox]

CTD when ever you postpone a spy/commando raid

[heartc]

I wanted to comment on this thread here, by saying the same what I said in the "News about Patch 1.3" thread:


In my opinion, one thing which makes promoting a further patch difficult ARE the so called "buglists" in the different forums. They are a hammer, and any dev looking into them while knowing he has only so much resources left to put into this game will just leave not only that thread, but also the whole damn forum and never look back.

I only know the "buglist" from here but I can imagine on other boards they look similar. Knowing my countrymen, I don't even WANT to see the German "buglist".
As to the buglist on this forum here, it seems as soon as someone mentions some trivial issues he might have had or might have percieved with the game, it gets added to the list. 80+ bugs left to fix? Don't kid yourselves. Most of this is trivial bull. The dive planes don't lower from time to time? Soooo, is this a showstopper?? You're watching a movie or playing a subsim? The only genuine buglist, with real must be fixed bugs, is the one Neal has brought up in his Patch 1.3 promotion thread. Everything else is bull and wishfull thinking, which would ultimately lead to the "perfect" game which has never and will never happen.
Get real.

[DragonRR1]

Originally Posted by heartc

I wanted to comment on this thread here, by saying the same what I said in the "News about Patch 1.3" thread:


In my opinion, one thing which makes promoting a further patch difficult ARE the so called "buglists" in the different forums. They are a hammer, and any dev looking into them while knowing he has only so much resources left to put into this game will just leave not only that thread, but also the whole damn forum and never look back.

I only know the "buglist" from here but I can imagine on other boards they look similar. Knowing my countrymen, I don't even WANT to see the German "buglist".
As to the buglist on this forum here, it seems as soon as someone mentions some trivial issues he might have had or might have percieved with the game, it gets added to the list. 80+ bugs left to fix? Don't kid yourselves. Most of this is trivial bull. The dive planes don't lower from time to time? Soooo, is this a showstopper?? You're watching a movie or playing a subsim? The only genuine buglist, with real must be fixed bugs, is the one Neal has brought up in his Patch 1.3 promotion thread. Everything else is bull and wishfull thinking, which would ultimately lead to the "perfect" game which has never and will never happen.
Get real.

Just because you think some bugs are trivial and unimportant does not mean that everyone else thinks this way. I personally would agree that many bugs I included in the list I maintain here are minor. However I tried to be impartial and include ALL genuine issues. There are very few "perfect" games out there if any but simply looking at the patch list for some clearly shows that many publishers choose to fix even minor issues. As an example Medieval Total War II had minor animation issues fixed in the latest patch; Supreme Commander had some wheel animation fixed on engineers which you hardly ever zoom in close enough to see..

Do you honestly think that a game developer doesn't want the game they have laboured on to be 100%? In my opinion the only problem the devs have is when there are posts saying "this game sux" etc..

From my own point of view the fairly recent silence from UBI suggested that we may not see a patch at all. If you look at some of my posts elsewhere you would see that I was trying to get feedback from players and modders about which of the listed issues could be fixed with mods. This was so that I could create a secondary list covering these more critical issues which cannot be worked around or modded in the hope that we would get a 1.3 to fix them. The list has helped to provide as much information as possible about these critical issues.

In essense there is no reason why players here shouldn't expect that they should get fixes for all listed issues.. So what if the game is a subsim?? The fact that we can be 99% certain now that the best we can expect is for UBI to allow the devs to fix critical issues doesn't mean that the people who complained about the dive planes are wrong and that they should never have expected them to be fixed in the first place.

Dragon