'Seawolves' contains Mods by...

[stratege]

Dear community members....


WOHAAA, what a pationnated thread here. I was wondering what was the X1 banning icone on some signature.....

Then, i found this longgggg thread. ( yes, i read all post, then surfed to check the dats collected ) ...


So, after thimkimg back to the allegation of modds robery and so ... this is bringing a clear questions here.

Do we enfreing any regulations by modding the sh3 games ??? Are the modded files illegals, or protected by some GPL/GNU licensing ??

If i refer to actual behaviors, the people fron US army throught their USARMYGAMES are treatening modders ( and more particulary cheaters ) to legal actions ... hu hu hu, uncle sam will tackle you ass if you modd his games ...

Now, getting back to serious matters. Do we, the community, or even ubisoft have a clear positions about the moddingof sh3 ??

Yes, i know, this is quiete a pieces of a question, involving laws, but this is , i beleive, a clear question.










ps: forget the spelling...i am not a native english speaker.

[FesterShinetop]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I was recently thinking that maybe it's time to remove the X1 boycott banner from my sig.

I've changed my mind. This is still an active issue.

I was thinking the same thing, hadn't heard about it in a long time and thought keeping the banner in would just draw attention to it. But like you say it apparantly still IS an issue!

And @ slow_n_ez :rotfl: That is classic man! Did you come up with that yourself? Funny stuff!

[Beery]

Originally Posted by stratege

Do we enfreing any regulations by modding the sh3 games ??? Are the modded files illegals, or protected by some GPL/GNU licensing ??

As I understand it, mods are protected by the 'fair use' clause of the product license. Mods are not illegal, and these days I think most game developers actively encourage mods, because it's thought that mods increase sales.

As for the community, there is a small minority of people who dislike mods based on an idea that the original (or standard) game is some sort of 'pure' form of the game, but in my view these people are mistaken - no game is released fully formed and perfect. People who use mods know that they enhance games. Mods are here to stay. Besides, no one is ever forced to use a mod.

[stratege]

Hello beery,

yes, i totaly agree with your analysis of "the feelings of developpers", and the facts that mods will stay ...

But, as you may know, the alien people amoungs us, called sometimes lawers or buisiness man, don't act/think/behave like us.

If ever, for example, someone with enought power just stated that sh3 mods are "illegals", are we able to fight back arguing some gpl/gnu/others legal stuff ...


On another hand, could you imagine X1 dealings the exclusive rights to publish mods (the x1 stuff is in fact a big sh3-modded, no talking about the allegations her), and then suitng the community to shut down for copyrights violations. Remember, the are talking about aliens here.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by stratege

If ever, for example, someone with enought power just stated that sh3 mods are "illegals", are we able to fight back arguing some gpl/gnu/others legal stuff ...

Lawyers may be alien, but they're not stupid. Why would they take money out of their own pockets by launching a lawsuit against mods that work in their own financial interest?

Even if they were stupid enough to do so, they couldn't win. As I said before, mods are covered by 'fair use'.

[stratege]

yes i agree, but if you don't mind, the copy of a musical k7 was "covert by fair used" system...

as was the right to do a backup copy of cd?dvd legally purchased....

Now, i am depraved from my fair used rights .... because i am not able to backup my sh3 disk.


second point here:

- launching a "shut down program" directly aimed at the two or three major community will cost, lets say 100000 $, wich at the size of a corporate is " pipi de chat " (small money). I tought the mpaa spend "only" 500000 $ in order couts to kill the three majors pirats web sites .....
- Now, lets see how many copy of the x1 disk might be sold ....

I don't know the odds, but i beleive there is enought money to be made here !!!


So, why don't we , the full subsim community, do a kind of endorsement (nda) letters to ask for a real and legal gpl way of modding the games....

[Shadow9216]

Stratege- if a company feels their property rights have been infringed, they must first send the offender a notice to "cease and desist". If this does not resolve the matter, they may resort to harsher legal measures. The whole issue with the music industry suing the download sites followed that model- the sites were ordered to stop, and were sued when they didn't. Same thing with the few people who were targetted- they had been ordered (albeit in a broad, general manner) to stop by a certain date, and when ip logs showed they were still downloading, they were sued. in the US, there wasn't one proven case of someone sued who was not informed prior to being served.

Not that I support the music industry, mind you...

If modding is legal under the "fair use" doctrine (and it is), then this community is protected; X1 is NOT protected by the doctrine since this is a commercial venture which fails to meet the fair use standard.

If modding is NOT legal, then it is up to the property owner, in this case UBISOFT, to order ALL modders to cease and desist until such time as they have obtained the necessary licenses.

I have asked before if X1 has UBISOFT's blessing- I can't imagine any other reason for X1 to be continuing to move forward on this project. I see two possibilities:
1) X1 has permission to market a commercial product
2) UBISOFT is choosing not to defend their property rights

If the latter option is correct, it sets a reasonable expectation that any modder could offer a commercial product based on UBISOFT's work- this implicitly includes non-profit and/or freeware mods. Should UBISOFT decide to enforce its claim of ownership and order anyone to cease, they could (if they chose to fight), argue the X1 precedent to justify their actions. At this point UBISOFT would have to prove they had given permission to X1 in order to uphold their claim.

[stratege]

as i say before, i am not sure the fair used is even totaly legal ...

This is like the so-called abandonware software.


As i said before, this was just a rethorical question, and also a personnal tought about aliens amoung us ....

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by Beery

I was reliably informed that one of the people behind Seawolves is none other than Matrix's Webmaster and Director of Art & Production, Marc Schwanebeck. He's also the very same guy who stifled debate about Seawolves on the Matrix forums. Talk about a web of deceit and corruption.

That's pretty funny.

It's a sleezebag operation afterall, then. It's a shame I was right when I suggested that may be the case based on no evidence other than Matrix having little interest in distancing itself from the issue.

[joea]

Ahhh no I can't agree 100%. Matrix have published some great stuff, I can't understand why they would do this. After all another of my faveorite wargames, Steel Panthers World at War is published by them and is free and got lots of patches....they publish some great stuff by Greg Grigsby in the realm of strategy games. I am perplexed and pissed.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Beery

I was reliably informed that one of the people behind Seawolves is none other than Matrix's Webmaster and Director of Art & Production, Marc Schwanebeck. He's also the very same guy who stifled debate about Seawolves on the Matrix forums. Talk about a web of deceit and corruption.

Are you sure about that Beery?

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by joea

Are you sure about that Beery?

Because I'm a Matrix customer (Highway to the Reich/Battles in Normandy) and I'm gonna mail them or post on their forum...

[Beery]

Originally Posted by stratege

...Now, i am depraved from my fair used rights .... because i am not able to backup my sh3 disk.

You can back up your SH3 disk. Do what I did - buy a second copy. I now have a perfectly legal back up disk.

So, why don't we , the full subsim community, do a kind of endorsement (nda) letters to ask for a real and legal gpl way of modding the games....

We don't need to do a letter writing campaign. We already have a real and legal way to mod. It's called 'fair use'. I've been modding games for 15 years. If it was illegal to mod games I would undoubtedly be in prison right now.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by stratege

as i say before, i am not sure the fair used is even totaly legal ...

This is like the so-called abandonware software....

It's not the same thing at all. Fair use is a legal clause in a legal document. It protects the rights of users against unfair selling practices. Abandonware is simply the state of a product when it is no longer supported by a developer/publisher.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by joea

Are you sure about that Beery?

It's never possible to be 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure. I've seen a copy of the Seawolves file that lists Marc Schwanebeck as part of the Seawolves team, and it was sent to me by a person who has no reason to lie. I never downloaded the Seawolves game from the X1 server myself, so I can't directly corroberate it.

I am also a Matrix customer. I bought Korsun Pocket and their war in the Pacific game and I also bought Highway to the Reich. In my view, the jury is still out as to Matrix Games' responsibility, but I fear that at best Matrix games may be having the wool pulled over its eyes by Schwanebeck & Co. One thing is for sure - if Matrix Games does release Seawolves, they will lose my custom.