Why it would be better to Command Japanese Subs

Originally Posted by Harry Buttle

Sink as many US carriers as you please, you won't change the course of the war one iota.

US subs took out 50% of the Jap merchant navy, air delivered mines did most of the rest.

The US slowed down carrier production late in the war as they were no longer neccessary.

IJN doctrine, equipment, culture and training all made sure that the IJN subs were utterly ineffective.

Ask yourself this, when you request that Ubi finance a boring niche market expansion - would you bet your house that it will break even? because you are asking Ubi to bet a lot more than that and if it fails (and it would) that might be the end of the Silent Hunter franchise.

Just because you find that niche 'boring' doesn't mean everyone else does. And by posting this thread title, perhaps we'll all find out it isn't quite as boring as you believe it to be.

[Pants]

I dont care what side i'm on TBH i just want a target rich environment
I must admit though, driving a jap sub does allow you to sink more ships than being a US sub driver ( because the allies had more ships ) more ships = more to sink.
Look what the U-boat arm accomplished in a target rich environment.
I know in RL jap subs were not as efficient as it's counterparts, but i dont care, i just wanna sink Sh1t LOL :rotfl:

[Harry Buttle]

Originally Posted by zaza

I see forum in Japan,many people want to play as IJN side,
I think If it will sell,it going to big hit at least in Japan

No. some people in an internet forum want it (ie a small subset of a small subset of the market). I note nobody has said that they would happily put their own money into the project.

and if there is one thing you can guarantee it is that it would not sell well in Japan. they don't want to remember, or be reminded of, what they did in WW2.

Hopefully it can be modded in for either those who like playing on arcade settings or those who enjoy the 'you got sunk' screen - but I'd hate to see Ubi waste one second of dev time on such a pointless excercise.

[zaza]

Originally Posted by Harry Buttle

No. some people in an internet forum want it (ie a small subset of a small subset of the market). I note nobody has said that they would happily put their own money into the project.

and if there is one thing you can guarantee it is that it would not sell well in Japan. they don't want to remember, or be reminded of, what they did in WW2.

Yeah of course I understand what you point.But,,,,
Hmmm I am not good enlgish speaker
so hard to explain what I want say to you....


By the way "they don't want to remember, or be reminded of, what they did in WW2."
I think it is shame as Japanese, young people in Japan forget
when the war begin, when the war end, which country fighting with...
What only they know is we lost the war.Some younger doenst
even know we had a war......

Or you want say Japanese did bad thing,so we want to remember or be reminded,,,,?
If I harm your feeling I am sorry.

[VON_CAPO]

Message to UBI:

I request immediate deployment of 2 Expansion Packs:
1.- Imperial Japanese Navy Addon
2.- Kriegsmarine Addon

A lot of us will pay $CASH$ for them.

EDIT: To play the winner, stronger and nice side is soooooooo bored.
Also it lacks the mystic of the U-boats.
So, surely I will buy SH4, but I will be happy when a worthy opponent appears.
I mean, an addon which permit to play the other side.

[BH]

Enough with the IJN Sub sim request please, they were irrelevent in the second world war.

Given their size, range, speed, and torpedoes, Japanese submarines achieved surprisingly little. This was because they were mainly employed against warships, which were fast, maneuverable, and well-defended when compared to merchant ships. Japanese naval doctrine was built around the concept of fighting a single decisive battle, as they had done at Tsushima 40 years earlier. They thought of their submarines as scouts, whose main role was to locate, shadow, and attack Allied naval task forces.

Compared to German submarines, Japan's huge boats were relatively easy to sight visually and with radar, slow to dive, hard to maneuver underwater, easy to track on sonar, and easy to hit. Japanese hulls were also not as strong as those of German boats, and therefore could not dive as deeply nor survive such rough treatment.

the face of such disadvantages, morale declined within the Japanese submarine force. This is reflected in a post-war report prepared by the US and British Navies which states, "It was frankly impossible to believe that submarines could spend weeks on the US west coast 'without contacts,' or spend more than 40 days running among the Solomons during the Guadalcanal campaign 'without seeing any targets.' Even the Japanese commanding officers could not disguise their embarrassment when recounting these tales. Further enlightenment is found in the extremely large number of times the target was 'too far away to attack.'"

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ss.htm

Sources:
Polmar, Norman and Dorr B. Carpenter. Submarines of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Conway Maritime Press, 1986.
Boyd, Carl and Akihiko Yoshida. The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II, Naval Institute Press, 1995.
Bagnasco, Erminio. Submarines of World War Two, Naval Institute Press, 1977.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by BH

Enough with the IJN Sub sim request please, they were irrelevent in the second world war.

Give me an irrelevant submarine to attack the overwhelming US Navy.
That is the real challenge.
It would be very interesting to see how those japanese subs perform under an aggressive command.

[Harry Buttle]

Originally Posted by zaza

Or you want say Japanese did bad thing,so we want to remember or be reminded,,,,?
If I harm your feeling I am sorry.

I am stating that the Japanese, as a nation, did appalling things in WW2 and are deliberately avoiding facing them (that does not mean that you personally do so).

Having retraced the Sandakan death march ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandakan_Death_Marches ) some years ago and read of the countless similar atrocities (Bataan, Burma railway, Changi, etc, etc all the way back to Nanking), it is quite clear that Japan does not want to accept responsibility for what Japan did. trying to market products in Japan that remind the Japanese of what they did is not a winning strategy.

[Harry Buttle]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

Give me an irrelevant submarine to attack the overwhelming US Navy.

The key word here is 'give', I notice not one person here has said that they would be prepared to help finance the project. You all know it would be a commercial failure.

If I had the cash, I'd gladly finance SH V 'U-boats again and back in the atlantic' because it can make money by just bringing advances to what has already been done there.

[Safe-Keeper]

Trying to market products in Japan that remind the Japanese of what they did is not a winning strategy.

There was still the movie Yamato some time ago. But no, no recent films about atrocities.

[difool2]

Hmm...possibility of a mod, using the same AI and other code just with US surface
ships and models of various Japanese subs?

[zaza]

Originally Posted by BH

Enough with the IJN Sub sim request please, they were irreverent in the second world war.

irreverent???
Why you said so?

Originally Posted by Harry Buttle

Having retraced the Sandakan death march ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandakan_Death_Marches ) some years ago and read of the countless similar atrocities (Bataan, Burma railway, Changi, etc, etc all the way back to Nanking), it is quite clear that Japan does not want to accept responsibility for what Japan did. trying to market products in Japan that remind the Japanese of what they did is not a winning strategy.

I see. Also in Japan sometime kind of this issue has discussed.
And sometime I saw it in newspaper.
And we cant find good solution.

[THE_MASK]

As an aussie i dont think i could bring myself to play as a jap sub captain . Sounds silly after playing a german one , but its true .

[d@rk51d3]

Originally Posted by Harry Buttle

If I had the cash, I'd gladly finance SH V 'U-boats again....

IF I had the money Id do alot of things too...

BTW, you seem to blissfully unaware of your own countries atrocities. Thats too bad.

[Wulfmann]

First, the dev has to consider what would be commercially successful and while a few might like being a Jap CO most don’t care for the above often stated reasons.
The majority that “think” they would like being a Jap likely know little about the poor boats the Jap subs were.
They were extremely slow to dive and a type IX is nimble by comparison to the poor maneuverability of these dogs. They were so structurally weak a good sneeze would sink one. Seriously they were weak, very very weak compared to US and German subs.
It might be interesting to run a few patrols to get an idea of how crappy boats are frustrating (even though they had great torpedoes) but it would not be long before you forget what side your on and care about having decent equipment and a snow ball chance in hell of surviving an M-80 or a couple firecrackers.
The Japs were big on making things photograph well and have impressive stats and their boats look good on paper. They are poor subs to actually have to use in combat, though.

Wulfmann