WE WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER ACES OF THE DEEP - Page 3

Drebbel · 11-27-05, 04:00 AM

Yep, AOD definately had it. Was great subsim that really gave you the feeling of being there.

But nowadays the standard gods-eye map and the too-easy-to-beat artificial intelligence would be the main immersion killer for me.

JScones · 11-27-05, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttraveler

What happened to CAOD? One week? I never had that one. What happened to you?

It was a rather poor attempt at porting AOD to Windows. Quite buggy and rather disappointing after the "real deal". That's what I thought at the time anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttraveler

SH3 Commander? What does it do?

Read about SH3 Commander here.

Catfish · 11-27-05, 07:00 AM

Hello,
i know this thread is old, but still...
SH3 is better than AoD, there can be no doubt. There probably would not have been an SH2 or 3 without AoD though. But if you really play AoD again after SH3 you will suddenly realize that there are a lot of things missing and wrong in AoD. Convoys were so abundant, and you were always told their exact position that you somtimes met three convoys crossing each other on different courses, which is absolutely unrealistic - but it certainly was fun, ok. In reality boats came home having never found a ship, let alone a convoy.
And i cannot remember enemy harbours full of ships in AoD, in fact there were no enemy or own harbours at all (SH1 had that). Sure, leaving and entering port in AoD was shown with one bitmap being pulled along in front of another, but you do not really want to compare that, do you? AoD was very good for its time, almost a quantum leap in that genre. But i just never had a subsim before SH3 with that realism and immersion, and where i could see my own boat diving from outside (OK, the old "Das Boot" subsim had it, and SH2, but SH2 failed with a lot of other "features"), and in such graphical quality - this is simply outstanding (let alone "seeing" your control room and crew members).

The wolfpacks never left port together, and they marched to their op area single, the courses were set up by the boat's navigators (there were a few deviations like those FlAK traps in the later war, and when they marched to intercept the invasion - but that was all). In fact the commanding officers often did not even know of other boats in the vicinity before an attack. Wolfpacks were alone managed and organized by the central command, first from the villa "KernÃ©vel" and later the HQ "Koralle" near Berlin, leaving U-boat commanders virtually blind concerning the general situation. The build-up of wolfpacks was dynamic - boats were contacted to give away their position, and if they were near a projected intercept position ordered to patrol a certain region, but only after the "B-Dienst" (Military observation with spies, radio intercepts etc.) had reported the probable position/course of a convoy. And the yellow rectangles in AoD were absolutely unrealistic, U-boat commanders would have been happy to know the position of other boats to synchronize an attack, but this was almost always impossible and only known and ordered from "above". Also the boats bound for the operation "drumbeat" were leaving and marching alone on different courses (which was certainly never a wolfpack).
Greetings,
Catfish

Etienne · 11-27-05, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schpeedy

2) AotD had 'water seeping into the boat.' Remember the gauge that indicated how much water was in the boat? Why doesn't SHIII have it? (the water in the tanks, i don't think it had one for water inside the presure tank either though.)

4) In AotD, I believe, that our subs speed had to do with impact damage of the torpedo. As in, try to 'charge' at full speed just before firing a torpedo at a ship. I believe this gave a better chance of doing more damage to a ship in AotD.

Both of these are pretty unrealistic. I don't think you'd have a gauge for total ballast onboard. They might have had them for single tanks - I'm not sure - but having one for all the tank would be a piping and tubing nightmare.

The speed of the boat at launch is only going to affect the speed of the torpedo for the first hundred meters or so.

benetofski · 11-27-05, 12:54 PM

AOD:

Quote:

I will always remember the game in a way that it really got me into suberines and the only way my father and I spend time.

errr.... Get Over It!

(Heard of NFL, NHL, - 'GIRLS?? - well perhaps the latter with 'Father' is pushing it - but hey!) :rotfl:

PS - Dont bet money on there EVER being another subsim (at least on a PC platform) there isnt enough profit in it - see other threads!

Hartmann · 11-27-05, 01:59 PM

I think that Silent hunter 3 is better than AoD.

Aod was very good for his time but we have now a game that do about the same things and more with better graphics .

only few things remain from AoD with is not possible with sh3:
wolfpacks, bdu ordering new patrol grids, and bilge water gauge.

I have a copy of Cod that works in windows, but runs a bit fast in my computer

I thin that sh1 was a very good game too.
a great campaign ( start departing in manila and finish the patrol sinking ships in the same port that is now japanese), good damage modelling ( the water in the engine rooms could damage the e-motors and diesels) , very good graphics, and enemy submarines .

nelson · 11-27-05, 06:47 PM

The stand-alone version of SH3 isn't even as good as the old Wolfpack or SS2 on the Amiga, ( gameplay-wise I mean, not so much graphically ) God bless all modders.

Schpeedy · 11-27-05, 09:28 PM

WELL MODDERS?
How about a Water in the Bilge Gauge???

nelson · 11-27-05, 09:37 PM

Need wolfpacks, it gets a bit lonely out there trying to take on convoys and their escorts by yourself!

ttraveler · 11-27-05, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nelson

The stand-alone version of SH3 isn't even as good as the old Wolfpack or SS2 on the Amiga, ( gameplay-wise I mean, not so much graphically ) God bless all modders.

I've been forming a theory on this.

Because graphics are so complicated these days, it takes an enormous amount of programming time to finish the graphics. That leaves not so much time for the gameplay. Back in the days of Aces of the Deep, the graphics were way simpler. The result: An enormous amount of the programming time budget could go for gameplay programming with AoD.

The modern computer gamer thus suffers.

Drebbel · 11-28-05, 04:10 AM

Sufers ?

Hmmm, remember that the AOD AI also was quite *&^%$%&(

People tend to forget that , they seem to remember the good stuff and forget the bad. Of course I am like that as well

:-)

Catfish · 11-28-05, 04:48 AM

Hello,
i always thought of AoD being better than Silent Service or the later Silent Hunter (1), not that those were bad, but AoD was somehow - better

.
It is also a theory of mine that the AoD AI was not too good. But remember you had no real clue on the AI - since you never saw your submerged boat, or any destroyer dropping ash cans, or any destroyer's course circling above your boat from outside everyone tends to say AoD is more realistic or had better AI.
Solution: Just turn your exterior camera off - so you will only experience what you experienced in AoD. But even me with my realism-kick certainly has a hard time turning off this exterior camera and beautiful graphics ...
I do not second the view we need a bilge-metre, this is the same crap as this 65-percent-damage info. You should see the damage (leaks, broken-down pumps and the like) and decide yourself how damaged your boat is. The damage modelling in SH3 is wrong in a way that U-boats would seldomly die suddenly from a depth charge, because the pressure hull did not really suffer - the sealings, pumps and trim tanks did. Maybe we could simulate an assistant mechanic telling his views of the damage helping you decide, like it was in reality ...
Greetings,
Catfish

nelson · 11-28-05, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello,
i always thought of AoD being better than Silent Service or the later Silent Hunter (1), not that those were bad, but AoD was somehow - better

.
It is also a theory of mine that the AoD AI was not too good. But remember you had no real clue on the AI - since you never saw your submerged boat, or any destroyer dropping ash cans, or any destroyer's course circling above your boat from outside everyone tends to say AoD is more realistic or had better AI.
Solution: Just turn your exterior camera off - so you will only experience what you experienced in AoD. But even me with my realism-kick certainly has a hard time turning off this exterior camera and beautiful graphics ...
I do not second the view we need a bilge-metre, this is the same crap as this 65-percent-damage info. You should see the damage (leaks, broken-down pumps and the like) and decide yourself how damaged your boat is. The damage modelling in SH3 is wrong in a way that U-boats would seldomly die suddenly from a depth charge, because the pressure hull did not really suffer - the sealings, pumps and trim tanks did. Maybe we could simulate an assistant mechanic telling his views of the damage helping you decide, like it was in reality ...
Greetings,
Catfish

Don't you just hate that? pounding an escort for ages, eventually setting it alight only to be "killed" by one lucky shot from it.
Why can't we be crippled and try to deal with it, even if it means sitting on the bottom for hours while the engineers fix the problem, or we have to abandon ship and be picked up by a passing aircraft and took home for our next mission? I don't know, any more ideas?

Excalibur Bane · 11-28-05, 01:06 PM

Hmm...Yeah, I remember playing Silent Service on my old 286/12 mhz with it's kicking EGA graphics. All hail the 16 colors and the cookie cutter ships!

*wipes a tear from his eye*

Sure seems like ages ago. I must be getting old.

rik007 · 11-28-05, 03:32 PM

In your memory everything seems to be better. However if you install dosbox (see: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net) and have a try with AOD or Silent Service you will notice that SH-III represents a lot of progress compared to the 386/486 games.

11-27-05, 01:59 PM	#36
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	I think that Silent hunter 3 is better than AoD. Aod was very good for his time but we have now a game that do about the same things and more with better graphics . only few things remain from AoD with is not possible with sh3: wolfpacks, bdu ordering new patrol grids, and bilge water gauge. I have a copy of Cod that works in windows, but runs a bit fast in my computer I thin that sh1 was a very good game too. a great campaign ( start departing in manila and finish the patrol sinking ships in the same port that is now japanese), good damage modelling ( the water in the engine rooms could damage the e-motors and diesels) , very good graphics, and enemy submarines . __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

11-28-05, 01:06 PM	#44
Excalibur Bane XO Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 429 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Hmm...Yeah, I remember playing Silent Service on my old 286/12 mhz with it's kicking EGA graphics. All hail the 16 colors and the cookie cutter ships! wipes a tear from his eye Sure seems like ages ago. I must be getting old. __________________ Looking for a list of mods for SH4? Everything you need is here: List Of Modifications for SH4 v1.3 "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

11-27-05, 04:00 AM	#31
Drebbel Dutch Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Almost at periscope death ! Posts: 1,665 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Yep, AOD definately had it. Was great subsim that really gave you the feeling of being there. But nowadays the standard gods-eye map and the too-easy-to-beat artificial intelligence would be the main immersion killer for me.

11-27-05, 07:00 AM	#33
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, i know this thread is old, but still... SH3 is better than AoD, there can be no doubt. There probably would not have been an SH2 or 3 without AoD though. But if you really play AoD again after SH3 you will suddenly realize that there are a lot of things missing and wrong in AoD. Convoys were so abundant, and you were always told their exact position that you somtimes met three convoys crossing each other on different courses, which is absolutely unrealistic - but it certainly was fun, ok. In reality boats came home having never found a ship, let alone a convoy. And i cannot remember enemy harbours full of ships in AoD, in fact there were no enemy or own harbours at all (SH1 had that). Sure, leaving and entering port in AoD was shown with one bitmap being pulled along in front of another, but you do not really want to compare that, do you? AoD was very good for its time, almost a quantum leap in that genre. But i just never had a subsim before SH3 with that realism and immersion, and where i could see my own boat diving from outside (OK, the old "Das Boot" subsim had it, and SH2, but SH2 failed with a lot of other "features"), and in such graphical quality - this is simply outstanding (let alone "seeing" your control room and crew members). The wolfpacks never left port together, and they marched to their op area single, the courses were set up by the boat's navigators (there were a few deviations like those FlAK traps in the later war, and when they marched to intercept the invasion - but that was all). In fact the commanding officers often did not even know of other boats in the vicinity before an attack. Wolfpacks were alone managed and organized by the central command, first from the villa "KernÃ©vel" and later the HQ "Koralle" near Berlin, leaving U-boat commanders virtually blind concerning the general situation. The build-up of wolfpacks was dynamic - boats were contacted to give away their position, and if they were near a projected intercept position ordered to patrol a certain region, but only after the "B-Dienst" (Military observation with spies, radio intercepts etc.) had reported the probable position/course of a convoy. And the yellow rectangles in AoD were absolutely unrealistic, U-boat commanders would have been happy to know the position of other boats to synchronize an attack, but this was almost always impossible and only known and ordered from "above". Also the boats bound for the operation "drumbeat" were leaving and marching alone on different courses (which was certainly never a wolfpack). Greetings, Catfish

11-27-05, 06:47 PM	#37
nelson Medic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 160 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	The stand-alone version of SH3 isn't even as good as the old Wolfpack or SS2 on the Amiga, ( gameplay-wise I mean, not so much graphically ) God bless all modders.

11-27-05, 09:28 PM	#38
Schpeedy Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sacramento, Calif Posts: 43 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	WELL MODDERS? How about a Water in the Bilge Gauge???

11-27-05, 09:37 PM	#39
nelson Medic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 160 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Need wolfpacks, it gets a bit lonely out there trying to take on convoys and their escorts by yourself!

11-28-05, 04:10 AM	#41
Drebbel Dutch Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Almost at periscope death ! Posts: 1,665 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Sufers ? Hmmm, remember that the AOD AI also was quite *&^%$%&( People tend to forget that , they seem to remember the good stuff and forget the bad. Of course I am like that as well :-)

11-28-05, 04:48 AM	#42
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, i always thought of AoD being better than Silent Service or the later Silent Hunter (1), not that those were bad, but AoD was somehow - better . It is also a theory of mine that the AoD AI was not too good. But remember you had no real clue on the AI - since you never saw your submerged boat, or any destroyer dropping ash cans, or any destroyer's course circling above your boat from outside everyone tends to say AoD is more realistic or had better AI. Solution: Just turn your exterior camera off - so you will only experience what you experienced in AoD. But even me with my realism-kick certainly has a hard time turning off this exterior camera and beautiful graphics ... I do not second the view we need a bilge-metre, this is the same crap as this 65-percent-damage info. You should see the damage (leaks, broken-down pumps and the like) and decide yourself how damaged your boat is. The damage modelling in SH3 is wrong in a way that U-boats would seldomly die suddenly from a depth charge, because the pressure hull did not really suffer - the sealings, pumps and trim tanks did. Maybe we could simulate an assistant mechanic telling his views of the damage helping you decide, like it was in reality ... Greetings, Catfish

11-28-05, 03:32 PM	#45
rik007 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 785 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 0	In your memory everything seems to be better. However if you install dosbox (see: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net) and have a try with AOD or Silent Service you will notice that SH-III represents a lot of progress compared to the 386/486 games.