Blind escorts part duex. - Page 3

John Pancoast · 03-08-19, 06:59 PM

Here's a REALLY interesting development. So I figured I do Scapa tests with each of the four base NYGM files one at a time.
Install 2.5, same results. Able to sail up to the destroyer and give it a bronx cheer.
So I figure, try NYGM 2.0.
Success !! Multiple tests, the destroyer engages me at 3-4000. That's more like it.
Makes me wonder if something is wrong with my 2.5 file, but I got it from here at Subsim.

ThePrody · 03-08-19, 07:02 PM

i know you have them, i was thinking they are the fault

i just tried the Scapa mission two times in a row and the enemy patrol boats are very quick to spot me if i'm surfaced , don't know what is happening with your 2.5 files, it looks like their visual sensors may be off .

John Pancoast · 03-08-19, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePrody

i know you have them, i was thinking they are the fault

i just tried the Scapa mission two times in a row and the enemy patrol boats are very quick to spot me if i'm surfaced , don't know what is happening with your 2.5 files, it looks like their visual sensors may be off .

I agree; something seems fubared in it. Thanks for the Scapa info.

John Pancoast · 03-12-19, 05:04 AM

I've come to the conclusion that the sensors in the stock game are whacked too.
Without binos I can clearly see the destroyer's bow wake and/or camo paint long, long before it reacts. If I can see it's, it should see mine when I'm at flank speed going directly at it, regardless of crew rating. "Sorry sir, even though it's my job and I have incredible optics, I didn't see that sub charging at us until it was only 800 meters away"

Especially in the clear weather/calm seas of the Scapa mission. Maybe the mission is tweaked to make it easy, don't know.
But the distances aren't much different in stock or any mod, this mission or in mod campaign convoy.
If nothing else, it can lead to very ahistorical and unrealistic tactics. Not many u-boat commanders would risk staying on the surface/or in the area with an escort in easy visual sight at close range when one shell from a destroyer can ruin their day, regardless of whether the destroyer saw it or not.
As is, a player can do that in stock, rub, gwx, and nygm. Or at least I can on my installs.

bstanko6 · 03-12-19, 05:55 AM

John one final effort. Do you have MEP5? The environment mod? PM me!

John Pancoast · 03-12-19, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstanko6

John one final effort. Do you have MEP5? The environment mod? PM me!

Literally just found that thread and going to give it a try today, thanks ! I was going to try MEP 6, but would you advise ver 5 instead ? pm sent.

Obltn Strand · 03-12-19, 07:01 AM

+1 för MEP 5

bstanko6 · 03-12-19, 11:55 AM

It has a sensor mod for NYGM. I think this will fix your issue!

John Pancoast · 03-12-19, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstanko6

It has a sensor mod for NYGM. I think this will fix your issue!

Got your pm, I'll give it a try. Really appreciate the advice !

John Pancoast · 10-16-19, 06:01 AM

Fwiw, here's what I was talking about. Just did these shots today. All NYGM files are from subsim.com, via Stiebler's signature link. Tried multiple re-downloads, installs, etc.

I don't know what's going on. Only NYGM seems to consistently do it, and I've even increased the AI visual range in AI_Sensors.dat slightly to try to get them to see me, no effect. NYGM 2.0 doesn't have this problem, I know that was changed in 2.1.
GWX never acts this way, Stock sometimes.

One thing I noticed was that the max range in the AI visual node in this file was only 11k. Is this what anyone else's file shows too ?

Scapa Flow mission. Same thing happens with other AI escorts in the mission.

Strange stuff. Don't know if it's visible in this photo, but my sub is visible to the eye at about eleven o'clock off the escort stern. Slight right of the star on the horizon surface. Black dot.
If I can see it this way, one would think the escort should too.

This one shows how close I got. No reaction ever from the escort, including when I rammed it later (sunk the sub).
Going flank speed the entire time. Using only the NYGM base files with the NYGM IABL ships mod.
Anyway, not trying to bash anyone's work. Just trying to figure it out.

03-08-19, 06:59 PM	#31
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,211 Downloads: 501 Uploads: 4	Here's a REALLY interesting development. So I figured I do Scapa tests with each of the four base NYGM files one at a time. Install 2.5, same results. Able to sail up to the destroyer and give it a bronx cheer. So I figure, try NYGM 2.0. Success !! Multiple tests, the destroyer engages me at 3-4000. That's more like it. Makes me wonder if something is wrong with my 2.5 file, but I got it from here at Subsim. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper

03-08-19, 07:02 PM	#32
ThePrody not dead yet Join Date: May 2017 Location: Romania Posts: 193 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 1	i know you have them, i was thinking they are the fault i just tried the Scapa mission two times in a row and the enemy patrol boats are very quick to spot me if i'm surfaced , don't know what is happening with your 2.5 files, it looks like their visual sensors may be off . Last edited by ThePrody; 03-08-19 at 07:18 PM.

03-12-19, 05:04 AM	#34
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,211 Downloads: 501 Uploads: 4	I've come to the conclusion that the sensors in the stock game are whacked too. Without binos I can clearly see the destroyer's bow wake and/or camo paint long, long before it reacts. If I can see it's, it should see mine when I'm at flank speed going directly at it, regardless of crew rating. "Sorry sir, even though it's my job and I have incredible optics, I didn't see that sub charging at us until it was only 800 meters away" Especially in the clear weather/calm seas of the Scapa mission. Maybe the mission is tweaked to make it easy, don't know. But the distances aren't much different in stock or any mod, this mission or in mod campaign convoy. If nothing else, it can lead to very ahistorical and unrealistic tactics. Not many u-boat commanders would risk staying on the surface/or in the area with an escort in easy visual sight at close range when one shell from a destroyer can ruin their day, regardless of whether the destroyer saw it or not. As is, a player can do that in stock, rub, gwx, and nygm. Or at least I can on my installs. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper Last edited by John Pancoast; 03-12-19 at 05:29 AM.

03-12-19, 07:01 AM	#37
Obltn Strand Commodore Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 614 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	+1 för MEP 5 __________________ Himmel, sukeltakaa!

10-16-19, 06:01 AM	#40
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,211 Downloads: 501 Uploads: 4	Fwiw, here's what I was talking about. Just did these shots today. All NYGM files are from subsim.com, via Stiebler's signature link. Tried multiple re-downloads, installs, etc. I don't know what's going on. Only NYGM seems to consistently do it, and I've even increased the AI visual range in AI_Sensors.dat slightly to try to get them to see me, no effect. NYGM 2.0 doesn't have this problem, I know that was changed in 2.1. GWX never acts this way, Stock sometimes. One thing I noticed was that the max range in the AI visual node in this file was only 11k. Is this what anyone else's file shows too ? Scapa Flow mission. Same thing happens with other AI escorts in the mission. Strange stuff. Don't know if it's visible in this photo, but my sub is visible to the eye at about eleven o'clock off the escort stern. Slight right of the star on the horizon surface. Black dot. If I can see it this way, one would think the escort should too. This one shows how close I got. No reaction ever from the escort, including when I rammed it later (sunk the sub). Going flank speed the entire time. Using only the NYGM base files with the NYGM IABL ships mod. Anyway, not trying to bash anyone's work. Just trying to figure it out. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper

03-12-19, 05:55 AM	#35
bstanko6 Admiral Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Murwik Naval Academy Posts: 2,130 Downloads: 390 Uploads: 13	John one final effort. Do you have MEP5? The environment mod? PM me!

03-12-19, 11:55 AM	#38
bstanko6 Admiral Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Murwik Naval Academy Posts: 2,130 Downloads: 390 Uploads: 13	It has a sensor mod for NYGM. I think this will fix your issue!