Las Vegas: 59 dead in Mandalay Bay shooting - Page 3

Platapus · 10-02-17, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

Well, this tragic event will knock Puerto Rico off the front page, we are going to be inundated with this news for a week or more, the talking heads following up with their keen insight as to what happened and why. Repeated showings of half blurred video's from cell phones, will be shown over and over. The media just feeds off of tragedy's like this, each news outlet will say they have news no one else has, and are the first to report on it. Whole thing will be sickening.

If it bleeds, it leads

STEED · 10-02-17, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

Repeated showings of half blurred video's from cell phones, will be shown over and over. The media just feeds off of tragedy's like this, each news outlet will say they have news no one else has, and are the first to report on it. Whole thing will be sickening.

All ready seeing it on Sky News and to be fair they did not film it, some camera person filming a women clearly in shock does not need having a camera filming her while zooming in and out.

Red October1984 · 10-02-17, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

You know the anti-gun people are going to howl over this one.

They're going to howl but the simple fact is that there are laws in place to keep people from having these guns already so I don't know what they're going to try to say beyond "take all of them"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

What I don't understand is why it took 3 hours to find out that the shooter was dead.

I don't know about you, but clearing buildings and rooms takes a while. There's 3309 rooms in that hotel based off of Wikipedia. Even if they saw the room he was firing from, he could have moved. I'm sure they cleared nearly every room for 5 floors up and down from where they had the report.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Automatic weapon, 32nd floor, shooting across a street at a large concert crowd within a fenced area... There was some serious planning involved here.

Looking at the math, it's almost an impressive firing position. Definitely not by chance and definitely not a beginner. Roughly 400 yards out and assuming a story is 10 feet....It's (ish, give or take) a 413 yard distance to be firing which is pretty difficult unless you're experienced with weapons. This wasn't an amateur for sure. Automatic weapons at that distance for that event, oh yeah. Planned for sure.

Sure makes me feel good about the country concert I'm going to this weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Too early to say but the authorities are suggesting at least one of the weapons may have been modified to allow fully automatic bursts of fire.

I'd say from the videos I've seen posted it's almost without a doubt. Whether it was modified or originally configured for full auto...it was firing too fast to even be a bump fire.

Julhelm · 10-02-17, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red October1984

it was firing too fast to even be a bump fire.

vienna · 10-02-17, 07:01 PM

According to details given int the latest press briefings by officials, the first LEOs on the scene of the shooter's room were met by gunfire from inside the room; not knowing exactly how many or how well armed the shooter or shooters may have been, they fell back until SWAT could respond. Additionally, reports have said fertilizer compounds of the sort used to make IEDs were found in the car of the suspect, so maybe the LEOs were concerned someone who seemed to be so well prepared and armed might also have taken contingency action by setting up IEDs or other booby traps; such traps are often used by terrorists to inflict harm to first responders; remember, when the LEOs went to the shooters floor, they didn't know if it was actual organized terrorism or a lone whacko; either way, you have to be ready for the worst...

<O>

Reece · 10-02-17, 07:36 PM

I think all automatic weapons should be banned, you don't hunt game with machine guns!!!

The gun laws here in Australia are the opposite, it is very hard to get a license for a single shot .22 for example, ridiculous when you live in a country area where the nearest house is a mile away!! (sorry about the rant

)

Red October1984 · 10-02-17, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

I think all automatic weapons should be banned, you don't hunt game with machine guns!!!

The gun laws here in Australia are the opposite, it is very hard to get a license for a single shot .22 for example, ridiculous when you live in a country area where the nearest house is a mile away!! (sorry about the rant

)

For the USA at least, it is extremely difficult for the average person to get an automatic weapon. There's a TON of paperwork and licensing involved and even then it's still illegal to hunt with an automatic weapon. In Missouri, you can't hunt with an automatic gun or a gun with magazine capacity over 10 and Missouri has very loose legislation.

They're not banned necessarily...but it is illegal for the average person to have one.

To buy an automatic weapon you have to have a full ATF/FBI background screening, fully register the firearm federally, fingerprints, recent photo, chief law enforcement approval, etc etc and it takes a long time.

The only problem is that laws only apply to those that follow them. I've never heard of anybody defend owning an NFA/Automatic firearm by saying they hunt with it. It's usually collectors, history buffs, or EXTREME hobbyists in my experience.

There's also the bump fire modifications like the one linked above that's a bit of a loophole but still frowned upon. Thanks Julhelm for the video. I entirely forgot that the stocks exist that allow you to do that. Without modifying the gun, it is possible to fire quick bursts like that....but only in very quick bursts.

--

That surprises me a little bit about Australia. I would figure they'd be a little looser on gun legislation.

Reece · 10-02-17, 08:10 PM

It is against the law here if you are caught with a spud gun, water gel guns, or any plastic pellet guns.

Oberon · 10-02-17, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

It is against the law here if you are caught with a spud gun, water gel guns, or any plastic pellet guns.

Yeah, the Aussie government decided after 35 were killed and 23 wounded that enough was enough. Between 1991 and 2001 the number of firearms related deaths in Australia went down by 47%.

Funny old world.

Onkel Neal · 10-02-17, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red October1984

It's (ish, give or take) a 413 yard distance to be firing which is pretty difficult unless you're experienced with weapons. This wasn't an amateur for sure. Automatic weapons at that distance for that event, oh yeah. Planned for sure.

Well, it's fairly long range but he had 20,000 people packed shoulder to shoulder, he did not need to be accurate. With that much range, it was difficult for the people on the ground to know where the fire was coming from, I bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red October1984

For the USA at least, it is extremely difficult for the average person to get an automatic weapon. There's a TON of paperwork and licensing involved and even then it's still illegal to hunt with an automatic weapon. In Missouri, you can't hunt with an automatic gun or a gun with magazine capacity over 10 and Missouri has very loose legislation.

They're not banned necessarily...but it is illegal for the average person to have one.

To buy an automatic weapon you have to have a full ATF/FBI background screening, fully register the firearm federally, fingerprints, recent photo, chief law enforcement approval, etc etc and it takes a long time.

I'm interested in learning if he has a legal automatic, or illegally modified semi-auto. I don't go for all the homemade full auto gimmicks, that should be illegal.

Wasn't there a girlfriend/partner or some female person of interest? I've heard she was interviewed/in Tokyo. Nothing since this morning.

eddie · 10-02-17, 11:25 PM

Only thing I know about her Neal is that she is out of the country, somewhere in SE Asia. Hard for me to believe she didn't know what kind of firepower he had purchased, but can't say she knew how he was planning to use it.

vienna · 10-02-17, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Well, it's fairly long range but he had 20,000 people packed shoulder to shoulder, he did not need to be accurate. With that much range, it was difficult for the people on the ground to know where the fire was coming from, I bet.

...

When the first videos of the shooting were shown on the news reports, I thought, at first, the seeming automatic fire was just the sound of the shots ricocheting off the adjacent buildings, making it seem like full auto; the news station here played the footage a couple of more times, and, on the second play it was very obvious it was full auto; I can only imagine what it must have been like to have been in the crowd hearing the sounds with no idea of what was really happening or where the shots were coming from...

<O>

Sean C · 10-02-17, 11:33 PM

IMHO, when something like this happens, as little personal information if any should be released about the perpetrator. The media should just refer to them as "some psychopathic loser" and then focus on the victims. I think the attention one receives after committing an act like this, whether or not they survive, plays more than a small part in their motivation.

Depending on how horrific the act, the media may spend weeks, months or even years discussing it. If you have a manifesto, they'll plug it and it will likely be published so the world can hear what you were angry about. You'll probably get your own Wikipedia page and, if you're lucky, you'll even make the cover of Rolling Stone. You just have to do something a little more heinous than the last thing in recent memory and you're a star.

F███ that. Stop making these pieces of filth famous. Wipe their names and memories from history and focus on helping the survivors and the victims' families. It may not stop all of the wack jobs out there, but at least it will give them one less reason to commit murder. After all, who wants to be remembered for five minutes as "some douche who couldn't handle life"?

Personally, I don't care who this s███head was or what his problems were. The authorities can look into that and if they feel there is something that can be done in the future to prevent a similar incident, they can suggest it and we can consider it and vote on it. That should be the only "legacy" these scum leave behind.

[/rant]

Méo · 10-03-17, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

How do you sneak 10 guns and all of that ammunition into a hotel? They said you can just carry it in

In fact he had more than ten guns, but yet the firing was only for 4 and 1/2 minutes ... make no mistake this was premeditated.

You know the anti-gun people are going to howl over this one.

Did you ever imagine if it was easier and cheaper to get a legal minigun?

Did you ever imagine such nutjob would be shooting on such a massive crowd with a minigun?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason

Such a sad and good joke in the same time...

vienna · 10-03-17, 02:57 AM

The question has been raised about why the hotel didn't notice the shooter taking large amounts of luggage or other items into the hotel and/or his room. The shooter was what is known in gambling parlance, a 'whale': someone who gambles large amounts and spends large amounts in the casinos and hotels; these people are given very great deference and many rules and behaviors expected of we lesser folk are bent, stretched or waived for the 'whales'. If the shooter did bring in unusually large or heavy baggage, I seriously doubt any of the staff would be inclined to question such a "good" customer...

<O>

10-02-17, 07:01 PM	#35
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	According to details given int the latest press briefings by officials, the first LEOs on the scene of the shooter's room were met by gunfire from inside the room; not knowing exactly how many or how well armed the shooter or shooters may have been, they fell back until SWAT could respond. Additionally, reports have said fertilizer compounds of the sort used to make IEDs were found in the car of the suspect, so maybe the LEOs were concerned someone who seemed to be so well prepared and armed might also have taken contingency action by setting up IEDs or other booby traps; such traps are often used by terrorists to inflict harm to first responders; remember, when the LEOs went to the shooters floor, they didn't know if it was actual organized terrorism or a lone whacko; either way, you have to be ready for the worst... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

10-02-17, 07:36 PM	#36
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,704 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	I think all automatic weapons should be banned, you don't hunt game with machine guns!!! The gun laws here in Australia are the opposite, it is very hard to get a license for a single shot .22 for example, ridiculous when you live in a country area where the nearest house is a mile away!! (sorry about the rant) __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

10-02-17, 08:10 PM	#38
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,704 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	It is against the law here if you are caught with a spud gun, water gel guns, or any plastic pellet guns. __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

10-02-17, 11:25 PM	#41
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Only thing I know about her Neal is that she is out of the country, somewhere in SE Asia. Hard for me to believe she didn't know what kind of firepower he had purchased, but can't say she knew how he was planning to use it. __________________ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me. Al Capone

10-03-17, 02:57 AM	#45
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The question has been raised about why the hotel didn't notice the shooter taking large amounts of luggage or other items into the hotel and/or his room. The shooter was what is known in gambling parlance, a 'whale': someone who gambles large amounts and spends large amounts in the casinos and hotels; these people are given very great deference and many rules and behaviors expected of we lesser folk are bent, stretched or waived for the 'whales'. If the shooter did bring in unusually large or heavy baggage, I seriously doubt any of the staff would be inclined to question such a "good" customer... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

10-02-17, 11:33 PM	#43
Sean C Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 984 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 2	IMHO, when something like this happens, as little personal information if any should be released about the perpetrator. The media should just refer to them as "some psychopathic loser" and then focus on the victims. I think the attention one receives after committing an act like this, whether or not they survive, plays more than a small part in their motivation. Depending on how horrific the act, the media may spend weeks, months or even years discussing it. If you have a manifesto, they'll plug it and it will likely be published so the world can hear what you were angry about. You'll probably get your own Wikipedia page and, if you're lucky, you'll even make the cover of Rolling Stone. You just have to do something a little more heinous than the last thing in recent memory and you're a star. F███ that. Stop making these pieces of filth famous. Wipe their names and memories from history and focus on helping the survivors and the victims' families. It may not stop all of the wack jobs out there, but at least it will give them one less reason to commit murder. After all, who wants to be remembered for five minutes as "some douche who couldn't handle life"? Personally, I don't care who this s███head was or what his problems were. The authorities can look into that and if they feel there is something that can be done in the future to prevent a similar incident, they can suggest it and we can consider it and vote on it. That should be the only "legacy" these scum leave behind. [/rant]