The Coup D'etat of November 1963

[Aktungbby]

It was da' mob; Bobby was makin' waves and when da patsy didn't croak on schedule, in goes Jack Ruby?!!(the real smoking gun) ta finish da' job keep his omerta and die of cancer conveniently; LBJ and the military industrial complex were just 'Collateral beneficiaries' ala Teddy Roosevelt or the Radical Republicans when two previous presidents were whacked"! Business as usual in the land o' the free. I suspect too that the sins of the father(bootlegger Boston thug Joseph P.) were visited on the son(s) here as well...

[mapuc]

I was thinking of starting thread about JFK, however I would first have done this on either Thursday or Friday.

This case have intrigued me a lot, have read books and seen many documentary, even those conspiracy videos(and the funny ones from Red Dwarf)

Who's expert on this?? I'm not, so how did it?

Was LHO acting by him self?
Was LHO, being used as an scapegoat?
Was LHO a part of a bigger issue?

Some month ago I listen to Coast To Coast and in this show I heard that Hoffa, was erased from the earth because of his knowledge about the assassination of JFK. That was new to me.( of course this information is placed under the suspicious conspiracy stuff)

The most intersting book I have read is Jim Garrisons book.

Personally I have it hart to believe that LHO acted on his own.
Being a part of a group-yes, but alone- no.

I have a lot of information from all these books and videos, but what is real and what's not.

Is it real that the "tour of Dallas" was changed in the last moment? So instead of driving straight ahead, the car turned to the left and drove down the road on which he was shot? If this is true, how could LHO have know this.

So in this case I will not say that Bubble is not that wrong-not this time

One thing though It was not a Coup D'etat.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Again we can only speculate and will still be doing so 100 years from now.

Yep, works for me...speculation ad nauseum.

Wash, spin, dry and repeat.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I understand it, no one wants to believe something like this could happen in the United States, this happens everywhere else but no here.

No, you don't understand it at all. A great many of us believe something like this could happen here. We're just waiting for the people who insist on this to show some actual proof. Fifty years on all they have is still smoke and mirrors of their own.

Amazes me how people will still blindly support the one shooter theory when evidence contradicts it.

And it amazes me how people like you will blindly support the conspiracy theory when evidence contradicts it. I've shown the studies of the skull wound, and you'll barge on without answering it. You believe this because you want to, and once again you are exactly like the people you claim to be against.

There dozens of witnesses who report fire from grassy knoll

Now let's look at some of those witnesses. Many of them gave conflicting testimony or made other claims that were patently false.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/witnesses.htm

the ballistics dispute the "one bullet theory"

I've already shown that to be false, and you continue to ignore it, as always.

and like Jim Garrison said in the JFK Movie "Government may try to explain this bullet with theoretical physics, but theoretical physics could prove than an elephant could hang off a cliff by his tail wrapped around a daisy"

Proof by dismissal through the statement of one non-scientist is no proof at all, except to you.

lol, it was junk science used to muddy the waters on an misinformed, naive public.

I've also shown that to be false, yet you continue to ignore it.

Most people can not tell what the federal reserve is, what it does, how it was formed, and how powerful it is.Most people only know the name Dulles due to the airport

And you get points of law wrong fairly consistently, along with historical data, yet you continue to make dismissive statements like that. You believe what you're told and what you want to believe just as much as the people you insult.

they don't understand just how hated JFK was by the establishment.

Do you have any proof of that, other than claims made after the fact by conspiracy theorists?

They don't understand, mainly because so much time has passed just how powerful these men were.J Edgar Hoover hated JFK and RFK.LBJ hated them as both and certainly did the bidding of the powers that be once the coup was completed.

Lots of people hate lots of people. They don't all kill each other (though some do) and that is only evidence to people like you who want to believe it.

This had to be an inside job, since parade route was also changed to what would be a suitable ambush site.

"Had to be"? Do you have the slightest evidence for that, other than your own opinion? Once again, you claim your opinion as fact. Nothing "has to be" anything.

The most likely scenario is that JFK was murdered in a plot initiated by Dulles, Helms, and federal reserve with the approval of LBJ.

Again, "likely"? It's the scenario that fits what you want to believe. Show some real evidence, please. So far it's all your opinion.

[Bilge_Rat]

Seinfeld's take on the "magic bullet"...

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Some month ago I listen to Coast To Coast

No offense intended toward you, but that is also a show that presents people claiming to have been abducted by aliens.

and in this show I heard that Hoffa, was erased from the earth because of his knowledge about the assassination of JFK. That was new to me.( of course this information is placed under the suspicious conspiracy stuff)

That's a nice speculation, but so far Hoffa's remains have never been found, so he is officially missing. No trace of when he died or how.

Is it real that the "tour of Dallas" was changed in the last moment? So instead of driving straight ahead, the car turned to the left and drove down the road on which he was shot? If this is true, how could LHO have know this.

The answer is that it's not true - the route wasn't changed at all.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/route.htm

Again people believe what they're told, and don't do the research for themselves. But it's not people believing the government, it's people believing the conspiracy buffs.

Here is the front page for the above link, and one of the best ones you'll read.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Buddahaid]

I believe this more than any of the "other" theories.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/...=p&age=0&&tt=b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikka_to_Ride

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Oh you are wrong, eventually the truth will come out.There are reasons files were sealed until 30 or so years into this century, to give people time to die off.Amazes me how people will still blindly support the one shooter theory when evidence contradicts it.

I've been hearing that since the 1970s when at least most of the conspiracy theories seemed fresh and new. Back then I devoured paperbacks and magazines on the subject. Four decades on and we are still stuck in the same tired swamp of anomaly, gossip and innuendo. For me it's gotten old like Roswell and the Apollo hoax.

When the final files are unsealed and something incriminating is found I'll eat my words. However, if nothing new is found I guarantee conspiracy theorist won't. They will scream foul, followed by another round of fresh conspiracy theories. Probably enough to sell books and videos and whatever future media well into the 22nd century.

Most of us would be delighted to hear a new theory about who actually killed Kennedy, if not Lee Harvey Oswald. However, what monumentally disappoints us is old information presented as if it were new. Most conspiracism works this way. A new crop of gullible readers devours it and pretends that because it is new to them, it's new to everyone. Maybe I'm a burnout case, but it's forty years on for me and it's all become old hat.

[Bilge_Rat]

Here is one of the problem with the "magic bullet" theory. It shatters Connally's right wrist, but he is still holding on to his Stetson with it.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jbchit.htm

[mapuc]

We all have an opinion in this issue

It could be right it could be wrong who knows?

Are any one of you some kind of expert in the fields that have to do with murder a.s.o(can't remember all these words)

I'm not, so I for one will not mock, laugh at an another member here in this thread.

I just have hard time to believe that Oswald did it one his own. That's my belief

Markus

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Most of us would be delighted to hear a new theory about who actually killed Kennedy, if not Lee Harvey Oswald. However, what monumentally disappoints us is old information presented as if it were new. Most conspiracism works this way. A new crop of gullible readers devours it and pretends that because it is new to them, it's new to everyone. Maybe I'm a burnout case, but it's forty years on for me and it's all become old hat.

If you're not too burned out I'd be interested to hear what you think of Donahues Mortal Error theory. From my reading since the 70s and 80s it's the only theory I've seen that adds up.

I doubt that the files opening will reveal anything new anyway and as you pointed out the CT crowd will continue to argue the toss even after they are opened.

[mapuc]

Motive !

Came to think of an detective saying in an episode of FBI-files on Discovery that it was important to find the motive of a crime.

So what could be the motive behind the assassination of JFK??

Markus

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mapuc

We all have an opinion in this issue

I don't. My only objection is to people who insist I believe something. All the conspiracy theories may be true. I've been waiting for forty years to see some proof. So far they haven't shown any.

I just have hard time to believe that Oswald did it one his own. That's my belief

I've gone back and forth several times. It wasn't until I started studying critical thinking several years ago that I started questioning everything. I realized I don't know anything, and I've come to believe that people who think they do can be the most dangerous people on earth. Never trust someone who insists he's right, no matter what side of what argument he may be on.

I've seen ample proof that Oswald could have made the shots and could have made the walk that some people have said he couldn't. It may well have been a conspiracy, and Oswald may or may not have been involved. Yes, he could have done it. Those requirements have been satisfied time and time again. That doesn't mean he did. There could have been two or more shooters. Anything is possible. The conspiracy theories have revolved around the idea that he couldn't have done it. He could have. Today they revolve around several contentions that have been shown to be wrong. That means that there doesn't have to be a conspiracy. There still may be, but to me more proof is required.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I don't. My only objection is to people who insist I believe something. All the conspiracy theories may be true. I've been waiting for forty years to see some proof. So far they haven't shown any.


I've gone back and forth several times. It wasn't until I started studying critical thinking several years ago that I started questioning everything. I realized I don't know anything, and I've come to believe that people who think they do can be the most dangerous people on earth. Never trust someone who insists he's right, no matter what side of what argument he may be on.

I've seen ample proof that Oswald could have made the shots and could have made the walk that some people have said he couldn't. It may well have been a conspiracy, and Oswald may or may not have been involved. Yes, he could have done it. Those requirements have been satisfied time and time again. That doesn't mean he did. There could have been two or more shooters. Anything is possible. The conspiracy theories have revolved around the idea that he couldn't have done it. He could have. Today they revolve around several contentions that have been shown to be wrong. That means that there doesn't have to be a conspiracy. There still may be, but to me more proof is required.

When I say this to my friend IRL or on different forums, that I don't believe LHO acted by himself almost every one says like:

So you think the mob, government, CIA, etc did it?

My answer: NO! I do not know who did it.

There's a movie starring Burt Lancaster in the program scheduled for that evening the movie was named 3 bullets( I just can't find that movie on imdb)

When I saw this movie, I couldn't help thinking, could this be the reason? Money Just money nothing else.

Markus

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mapuc

There's a movie starring Burt Lancaster in the program scheduled for that evening the movie was named 3 bullets( I just can't find that movie on imdb)

It may have been renamed 3 Bullets for a foreign market. The US title was Executive Action.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070046/?ref_=nv_sr_3