Civility in GT

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i respectfully disagree

your opinions belong to the medications

HEY! There's the name of my next band!

[Oberon]

I honestly thought this thread was a bump from about five years ago. I think we blamed it on the massive influx of new players from Silent Hunter III at that point...or was that seven years ago. I forget.
GT is GT, people are people, be they moderators or posters. If you want a moderator completely devoid of opinion or comment then code a automatic program. I've been a mod on another forum, and that was with a much much much lower user base than Subsim, and we had some characters there, and it was a bloody hard job to be civil to them some days, and other days I'd have to be talked out of picking up the ban-hammer.
That's why you have a mod-TEAM, they look out for and support each other, if one of them crosses the line, the others pick him or her up on it, and if a moderator suffers a complaint then the others discuss it and judge the situation, ultimately Neal is the High Chief, the Big Fish, the Lord High Inquisitioner...errr...getting carried away there, so he can make an executive decision if he chooses to, but he has chosen the moderators that he has for a reason, he trusts them, and if Neal trusts someone, then I trust them too.

Except Steve...he's shifty...

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I honestly thought this thread was a bump from about five years ago. I think we blamed it on the massive influx of new players from Silent Hunter III at that point...or was that seven years ago. I forget.
GT is GT, people are people, be they moderators or posters. If you want a moderator completely devoid of opinion or comment then code a automatic program. I've been a mod on another forum, and that was with a much much much lower user base than Subsim, and we had some characters there, and it was a bloody hard job to be civil to them some days, and other days I'd have to be talked out of picking up the ban-hammer.
That's why you have a mod-TEAM, they look out for and support each other, if one of them crosses the line, the others pick him or her up on it, and if a moderator suffers a complaint then the others discuss it and judge the situation, ultimately Neal is the High Chief, the Big Fish, the Lord High Inquisitioner...errr...getting carried away there, so he can make an executive decision if he chooses to, but he has chosen the moderators that he has for a reason, he trusts them, and if Neal trusts someone, then I trust them too.

Except Steve...he's shifty...

His "Space Wagon" is a manual.........

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

His "Space Wagon" is a manual.........

Aha! So he's not only 'shifty' but also shift-stick!

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I only consider myself a moderator when someone actually breaks the rules. Other than that my opinions are my own, and I don't expect anybody else to agree with them. Sometimes it's hard to know where that line is, even when you're the one straddling it. Or maybe especially then.

Then you should have a non moderator account for posting personal opinions so people who don't want to hear it can put you on ignore like anyone else.

[Oberon]

But does it really take that much to just scroll past the post?

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But does it really take that much to just scroll past the post?

Actually no because you should never ignore a moderators post, even if he is trolling.

[NeonSamurai]

Neal does not permit two accounts, not even for us. He also doesn't want to censor us as far as expressing ourselves, even though many of us do to varying degrees. You can't ignore moderators, for good reason, even though you may want to.

I have no one on ignore. I don't feel I can or should. I also have to read piles of threads, threads about stuff I could care less about, threads about stuff I strongly disagree with, threads that sometimes make my head hurt.

Everyone has different views, and many people tend to think theirs is the right one, even the only possible one. All of these views are clouded by the person and their make up, and none of them are really true (or false either). Me I believe in trying to respect and understand the other person, even if I think their view point is utterly absurd and I want to scream out at them, how can they possibly think that. But I also find that even in those cases, there often is little bits and pieces I might agree on.

Anyhow, I am questioning if we are going to have to get a little tighter on the rules when it comes to respecting fellow members. I try to give everyone as much room as I can to express themselves, but I think the amount of personal attacks is getting a out of hand right now. I think recent events has a lot to do with this.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Actually no because you should never ignore a moderators post, even if he is trolling.

Why? Why should you not ignore a post when it's obvious that he's posting not as a moderator but as a person?

EDIT: Well said Neon.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Why? Why should you not ignore a post when it's obvious that he's posting not as a moderator but as a person?

At what point does their condescending lecturing and other personal comments cross the line from private to official? They make every post with a moderators badge right under their name. As far as I'm concerned as long as they are in uniform so to speak every post is a moderator post.

Maybe it's time to convince Neal to change the one account policy.

Neon: I respect your opinion but a moderators job is not to ignore any post made. Nor do I want to ignore any moderators official post, but I'd much rather have the ability to use the forum ignore feature on their personal posts without having to read it first to see which type it is.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by August

Neon: I respect your opinion but a moderators job is not to ignore any post made. Nor do I want to ignore any moderators official post, but I'd much rather have the ability to use the forum ignore feature on their personal posts without having to read it first to see which type it is.

I personally think it is our job not to have anyone on ignore, but it is something we are permitted to do, partly if this moderator does have issues with a specific member, this is one reason why we generally have more than one moderator watching a forum. I am also not aware of any forums that separate moderators like that, with the sole exception of when the moderators are also employees (like for a game company). The logistics of switching back and forth are a huge pain in the butt (I've been that kind of moderator), and really doesn't change a whole lot.

I also want to remind everyone, that the moderators are human. We all have good days and bad days, and may not always express ourselves in the most appropriate and effective ways. Sometimes our messages may come across as being more harsh than they are intended. But I have never gotten the impression that any moderators specifically have it in for any specific members, or are engaging in trolling. But I also know it may not seem that way if you are on the receiving end, and it can be hard not to take it personally. We also may not package the message in the best manner and tact possible, or the package we deliver may be misunderstood.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But does it really take that much to just scroll past the post?

Bingo! We have a winner.

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I have no one on ignore. I don't feel I can or should.

Would make sense since how can you fullfill your role as mod if you have people on ignore.

Me I believe in trying to respect and understand the other person, even if I think their view point is utterly absurd and I want to scream out at them, how can they possibly think that. But I also find that even in those cases, there often is little bits and pieces I might agree on.

We have 2 winners. Respect goes a long long way.
It's all good and well being passionate about something you believe in and standing your ground.
But, seeing the other person's point of view and acknowledging it, without name-calling, disrespectful comments, rudeness etc goes even further.
That's called respect.

Anyhow, I am questioning if we are going to have to get a little tighter on the rules when it comes to respecting fellow members. I try to give everyone as much room as I can to express themselves, but I think the amount of personal attacks is getting a out of hand right now. I think recent events has a lot to do with this.

I would agree with this summation, certain events invite more heated or passionate discussions than other topics, granted.
However, at the end of the day, respect should be across the board, regardless of the topic being discussed.

Another thing i'd like to throw in:
We are all aware of the rules of Subsim in relation to posting banned content, and i won't go into the details of what that entails, we all know.
But for Minors to see the immature and condescending and often rude and personal attacks on members in various posts here wouldn't really be appropriate either would it?
Sure it's not banned content per se, but what sort of an example does that set for the younger people, to come onboard and see this sort of behaviour go on?
I doubt if most of us like that.
And, the reputation of Subsim (being great in my eyes) surely has taken some hits with this sort of Nonsense going on.
Nonsense you say? Yep, it's nonsense.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

At what point does their condescending lecturing and other personal comments cross the line from private to official? They make every post with a moderators badge right under their name. As far as I'm concerned as long as they are in uniform so to speak every post is a moderator post.

Maybe it's time to convince Neal to change the one account policy.

Crossing threads a bit here since I've just said a similar thing over on a different thread, but this is a multi-thread discussion at the moment.
I can't speak for all the moderators on this forum, but Takeda will sign his post with 'The Management' when he is acting as a moderator.

Like so:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sear...archid=1537529

So, if you come across a post by Takeda and it's usually relatively short and ended with 'The Management' then you know that that is a moderator post, not a personal one. Otherwise he is a member just like you or I.
A number of members are also moderators primarily for fighting spambots, Herr B is, I think, and so is Jimbuna, although feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Do you feel the same way about them?

Honestly, August, I can see where you're coming from, but I think that you are in the minority in this respect, and I can't see Neal changing something that has been in place for a long time for a minority rather than a majority. I, personally, have always been able to differentiate between the two identities of the moderator accounts on this forum, and I think that many other members are also able to.

I honestly don't have the solution to this conflict, but I certainly think that a little bit of breathing space for all involved would be a good start.

[Aramike]

I haven't been here in awhile, so I should probably keep my "mouth" shut, but ... yeah, I'm known for that...

Just sayin' from just a little readin', it GT doesn't seem to have changed all that much from when I first got to this place a few years back. Arguments come and go, feathers are ruffled, opinions are passionately expressed and defended (including the more creative amongst us finding fun zingers to toss at the other guy that fall within the rules but outside of "proper etiquette"), and in general, battle lines remain drawn across the familiar grounds of old.

But really, does it matter? For example, I may think you're an idiot in one thread, post something alluding to that, wait for your snarky remark, and engage in a back-and-forth of some substance wrapped in the sweet yellow cake of sarcasm (who misses Twinkies?). And so on. We go until we tucker out and the thread is akin to a submarine with a slow leak, sinking until it hits the crush depth of us having something else to argue over.

At the end of the day, I've never met a single person with a strong value or opinion that doesn't feel the urge to passionately defend it. I admit that I'm no better than that. Does that speak poorly of strong opinions? Absolutely not.

It only speaks factually of human nature.

So here's my point: let the games continue. Call things as you see them. Stay within the relative borders of personal respect and keep individual conflicts restrained to their individual forums (read: threads).

There's only one kind of diversity in this medium and that is of the mind. Why temper it's passion?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by August

Then you should have a non moderator account for posting personal opinions so people who don't want to hear it can put you on ignore like anyone else.

We should make you the moderator manager. I like your idea though.