A new urban flight causing problems in Detroit.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

There are few things on this great earth as worthless and without value as the man who says "it cannot be done".

Amen!

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Growler

Losing a job doesn't make you a victim.

Waiting around for it to get better, and not doing anything to change it - doesn't make you a victim.

Getting your house knocked down and losing your job when your employer is flattened in a natural disaster - now, you're a victim.

Being a victim DOES NOT in any way excuse you from standing up, dusting yourself off, and getting to work making your situation better. It does not give you permission to whinge and gripe and sit on your duff waiting for someone else to make it better.

If you're doing something towards improving your lot, I'm all for it. If you're sitting there and whinging about how so-and-so did this to you, and therefore, you're owed something? Sorry. No joy.

what does it make you when your employer lays off everybody in quick succession and then moves your former job to mexico for short term profits?

The people of Flint and Detroit have tried to reinvent themselves and the city itself, but when it comes down to it, when there are few places making things anymore here, and, an out of work manufacturer isn't really somebody who's in demand right now. They'll just either go to mexico and employ the people there...or just hire an immigrant (illegal or not) to work at some bottom basement wage.

Its unbelivable the contradictory positions people are having to take to support their views.
As Angus said, you don't live in reality.

In one breath its, hey have family and friends in the locale so you can dump your kids while you go walkabout, the next its don't put down roots and connections in an area so you can just up and leave with no worries.

Taters "nest" idea is actually ludicrous in todays situation as people had their nests and thought they had their security and now they find that their nest is burnt, their tree condemned future propects of getting new twigs is non existantt as they have a burnt nest record and some bloody cuckoo is making a racket about these "silly" people not having a proper nest.
Now OK people might have their parents to fall back on, but in this rust belt situation you a looking at parents left in empty towns with their property asset now worthless and their pension provisions thrown away by some coked up banker, and you people want folk to leave kids with their grandparents who now live in a ghetto while they themselves live out the back of a car or in some doss house working illegaly in the black economy just to fix the damn motor car

[AVGWarhawk]

In one breath its, hey have family and friends in the locale so you can dump your kids while you go walkabout, the next its don't put down roots and connections in an area so you can just up and leave with no worries.

I'm not sure what kind of family you have but having to 'dump my kids' for a day or so with a family member is never a problem. Specifically if I'm going for a job interview. The pastor of my church and his wife would look after my kids in heartbeat. I can name 5 other family members that would watch my children. WTH...is every jobless person with a kid an introvert with no friends or family? This guy was going for a job interview...not a walkabout to whore and drink. Why not a family member? As far as roots, sometimes you have to cut and run...roots or not. My family moved 8 times since I was born. What seems to be the problem with up and leaving...roots or not? Everyone should attempt to make roots but also accept that the old root ball might have to up and leave.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

what does it make you when your employer lays off everybody in quick succession and then moves your former job to mexico for short term profits?

The people of Flint and Detroit have tried to reinvent themselves and the city itself, but when it comes down to it, when there are few places making things anymore here, and, an out of work manufacturer isn't really somebody who's in demand right now. They'll just either go to mexico and employ the people there...or just hire an immigrant (illegal or not) to work at some bottom basement wage.

It makes you jobless. Been there and done that. Went and found another job. Got laid off in three months. Jobless again. Found another job and have been at it 6 years.

I do feel for the people of Flint and Detroit. The cities that were build on the car industry. If you did not work for them you worked at the local 5 and dime. The big employers go so does the jobs. Shame really. The Eastern Shore of Maryland is the same way. Purdue Chicken. You are a grower or packer. Anything other than that is the local 5 and dime for a job.

[Bubblehead1980]

HOLD THE PHONE!!!

I actually agree with mookie on something, wow

Seriously....Mookie is right, in today's world for most people who go from a decent income to suddenly not having said income (usually the middle or lower middle class)jumping up and moving across the country to find a job(unless they are already hired), esp if have children, relatives they care for etc is just not really possible in most cases.Consider gas, food(but are high and keep rising) lodging, etc etc Jobs are tough to come by for pretty much everyone looking for one right now.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It makes you jobless. Been there and done that. Went and found another job. Got laid off in three months. Jobless again. Found another job and have been at it 6 years.

I do feel for the people of Flint and Detroit. The cities that were build on the car industry. If you did not work for them you worked at the local 5 and dime. The big employers go so does the jobs. Shame really. The Eastern Shore of Maryland is the same way. Purdue Chicken. You are a grower or packer. Anything other than that is the local 5 and dime for a job.

when an entire city is founded on a single industry... or maybe two industries, odds are considerably higher that the entire city economy could crumble.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Taters "nest" idea is actually ludicrous in todays situation as people had their nests and thought they had their security and now they find that their nest is burnt, their tree condemned future propects of getting new twigs is non existantt as they have a burnt nest record and some bloody cuckoo is making a racket about these "silly" people not having a proper nest.
Now OK people might have their parents to fall back on, but in this rust belt situation you a looking at parents left in empty towns with their property asset now worthless and their pension provisions thrown away by some coked up banker, and you people want folk to leave kids with their grandparents who now live in a ghetto while they themselves live out the back of a car or in some doss house working illegaly in the black economy just to fix the damn motor car

Are you aware of what % of inner city children in the US are born out of wedlock? This is not a "Swedish" out of wedlock where they cohabitate, and don't marry to score better benis. This is the mom not necessarily even knowing who the dad is, or a dad that is entirely uninvolved in the childrens' (plural, all too often) lives past knocking mom up.

It's ~80%.

80%.

That's what I mean by "not making a nest."

The people who have lost their jobs are NOISE compared to that statistic. This is 100% preventable. Getting pregnant is a CHOICE, period. Having, you know, 2 involved parents is a necessary condition for a nest. Heck, it's a sufficient condition, IMO. I have friends who are unambiguously rich with kids fall into the "nest" category, and some that barely get by—but there are still 2 parents making a home. Unmarried, teenage girls with babies... not "nested." So I'm not talking about people who have their situation change, these are people who choose to have kids in an entirely untenable position.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by tater

Are you aware of what % of inner city children in the US are born out of wedlock? This is not a "Swedish" out of wedlock where they cohabitate, and don't marry to score better benis. This is the mom not necessarily even knowing who the dad is, or a dad that is entirely uninvolved in the childrens' (plural, all too often) lives past knocking mom up.

It's ~80%.

80%.

That's what I mean by "not making a nest."

The people who have lost their jobs are NOISE compared to that statistic. This is 100% preventable. Getting pregnant is a CHOICE, period. Having, you know, 2 involved parents is a necessary condition for a nest. Heck, it's a sufficient condition, IMO. I have friends who are unambiguously rich with kids fall into the "nest" category, and some that barely get by—but there are still 2 parents making a home. Unmarried, teenage girls with babies... not "nested." So I'm not talking about people who have their situation change, these are people who choose to have kids in an entirely untenable position.

Sounds like an episode of Maury Povich

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

when an entire city is founded on a single industry... or maybe two industries, odds are considerably higher that the entire city economy could crumble.

Speaking of that, it would be interesting to see what would happen to the West Coast, if the Tech industry tanked.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Speaking of that, it would be interesting to see what would happen to the West Coast, if the Tech industry tanked.

they still have the porn industry... ten thousand years from now that will still be booming

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

they still have the porn industry... ten thousand years from now that will still be booming

I think Internet porn pretty much dies with Internet anonymity.

@AVG

I'm not sure what kind of family you have but having to 'dump my kids' for a day or so with a family member is never a problem.

To use an example given here example it isn't a day or two, you said about driving for two days to get to an interview, so that means really a five day round trip. Then moving 1200 miles away for a fresh start in new accomodation waiting for a new paycheck when they didn't even have enough money for a motel room on the journey.
Reality check?
Nice idea, now when they need their friends and family again they are all 1200 miles away.
Unless of course you abandon your kids to someone elses care long term.

My family moved 8 times since I was born.

And?

BTW AVG, you miss the biggest problem with this situation in todays world.
credit history. Before I rent I want a bloody good credit history from them, I ain't gonna take someone who has just been forclosed for not paying their debt or as in some examples mentioned evicted for not paying rent and dragging out the eviction process.


@Tater

Are you aware of what % of inner city children in the US are born out of wedlock?

What has that got to do with the price of cheese?
Oh yeah....."So I'm not talking about people who have their situation change"
So given the actual topic..... Are you aware of what percentage of marriages in the US end in divorce?

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

does the man have a mother or a father? trusted friend or neighbor? aunt? uncle? brother? sister? cousin? any relatives on the face of the earth?

Oh he does, they just live 1,000 miles away in the opposite direction. He left them in search of a job in the first place, per your advice.

its called telling the mechanic your situation, offering to grab a broom, mop, screw driver and wrench or do anything you can to get a break on the bill. Believe it or not, there are folks out there who will let you do this. I've done it once before myself.

Mechanic: You'll need a new transmission. It'll cost $3,000 and take a week to do.

Mr. Bootstrap: Ok, I only have $100. So can I just help out around the garage to pay it off, even though your own employees would require months to make that much money? Oh, and since all my money is going to the repairs, I'll have to live in my car here at the garage, use your bathroom, and I'll have to dumpster dive out back. Is that cool?

Mechanic: Ummm... no.

hitch hike for Christ's sake. i remember when I was a kid my dad's truck broke down on a long trip to kentucky to visit my grandparents... we rode in a big rig with a trucker for about 60 miles to the nearest dealership where we could get some kind of help.

whether you can believe it or not, people backpack across europe, they hitch hike across the united states too.

So, break the law, then? No problem, I guess. I'm sure Mr. Bootstrap can just offer to do odd jobs around the police station to pay off the fine when he's caught.

And Europe is not the US.

Unlike the more liberal population... I refuse to count any man out as helpless as long as he is willing to help himself!

Unlike the more conservative population, I refuse to live in a fantasy land.

Maybe the scruffy individualist BS is useful as a sort of golden lie, but that's what it'll remain - a lie.

yes, reality is complicated - so complicated that JUST LIKE I SAID - this scenario is not for everyone... but it is something that can be done by MOST people

But then your caveat at the end seemed to imply that while there are people who can't do this, they are the ones who can't or won't help themselves.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

@AVG


To use an example given here example it isn't a day or two, you said about driving for two days to get to an interview, so that means really a five day round trip. Then moving 1200 miles away for a fresh start in new accomodation waiting for a new paycheck when they didn't even have enough money for a motel room on the journey.
Reality check?
Nice idea, now when they need their friends and family again they are all 1200 miles away.
Unless of course you abandon your kids to someone elses care long term.


And?

BTW AVG, you miss the biggest problem with this situation in todays world.
credit history. Before I rent I want a bloody good credit history from them, I ain't gonna take someone who has just been forclosed for not paying their debt or as in some examples mentioned evicted for not paying rent and dragging out the eviction process.


@Tater

What has that got to do with the price of cheese?
Oh yeah....."So I'm not talking about people who have their situation change"
So given the actual topic..... Are you aware of what percentage of marriages in the US end in divorce?

Abandon kids? Who said anything about abandoning kids? Call it what you like, a family or friend watching your kids is not abandoning them. Long term. Is say 10 days long term? Let's not embellish. I put up my brother-in-law and sister-in-law plus their German shepard for 5 weeks while they settled on a house. This is what families do. I would look after their kids as well if there was a job interview. If you think a family member would not help out then I do not know what to say about your family and experience with them. My family would help in heartbeat. Furthermore, does this individual not recieve unemployment benefits to help with say a place to stay until his first paycheck is received?

You are preaching to the choir on credit situation. I have been their and done that. I dug out of the hole. Losing a job with wife, kids and house to look after. Been there and done that not once but twice. Furthermore, the folks getting foreclosed on...the credit check for a rental...check it man...I have friends that have the worst credit report anyone has seen finding places to rent. I have family members who just got a rental house (second rental) and these clowns were foreclosed on 2 years ago. Their eviction process was over 2 years on the mortgage they let go!!! Not one red cent was paid to the mortgage in 2 years! So the credit check issue is a bump in the road. Nothing more. Rental properties can be had, good, bad or no credit. I was born at night but is was not last night. I did not miss anything concerning credit.