History is written by the victor - Page 3

frau kaleun · 12-09-10, 04:11 PM

Japanese movies about WWII:

Fires on the Plain

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053121/

The Human Condition (actually a trilogy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum..._(film_trilogy)

August · 12-09-10, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Japanese movies about WWII:

Fires on the Plain

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053121/

The Human Condition (actually a trilogy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Condition_(film_trilogy)

Made by Americans but told from the Japanese POV:
Letters from Iwo Jima
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_from_Iwo_Jima

I-25 · 12-09-10, 04:16 PM

here's more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_%28film%29 <- thats a good one

http://eiga.wikia.com/wiki/Sea_Without_Exit

i'm big on everything japanese

Krauter · 12-09-10, 04:21 PM

Thanks alot for all the current suggestions guys

Dan D · 12-09-10, 05:01 PM

A neglected masterpiece of war literature:

“The Stalin Front”, also published as “The Stalin Organ”, by Gert Ledig.

Gert Ledig served in a Penal Battalion on the Eastern Front near Leningrad in summer 1942 as punishment for having made “communist statements”.

“ Stalin Front is a harrowing, almost photographic, description of violence and devastation, one that brings home the unforgiving reality of total war (The New York Review of Books).

Opening scene:
“The Lance-Corporal couldn't turn in his grave, because he didn't have one. Some three versts from Podrova, forty versts south of Leningrad, he had been caught in a salvo of rockets, been thrown up in the air, and with severed hands and head dangling, been impaled on the skeletal branches of what once had been a tree.

The NCO who was writhing on the ground with a piece of shrapnel in his belly, had no idea what was keeping his machine-gunner. It didn't occur to him to look up. He had his hands full with himself...”

Penguin · 12-09-10, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krauter

Thanks alot for all the current suggestions guys

I second this remark! A great effort of a great community!

Thank you all for the cool tips on the Japanese films, I have only seen Letters from Iwo Jima so far. I can only recommend to watch it as a double feature.

@heatc: there was a very impressive dokumentation about surviving kamikaze pilots on arte some 15 years ago. They gathered together for the first time, 50 years after the war. I will do a bit of research to find it, or at least its title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan D

A neglected masterpiece of war literature:

“The Stalin Front”, also published as “The Stalin Organ”, by Gert Ledig.

Gert Ledig served in a Penal Battalion on the Eastern Front near Leningrad in summer 1942 as punishment for having made “communist statements”.

I must admit that I have never heard of Ledig before, but I will have to get the book. I might had known someone who had been in this particular batallion

, too bad that the book is written as a novel, but maybe the names or descriptions can give me a hint about my late acquaintance.

Glad to see that there are still some readers outside! A quick amazon.com search has shown me that some of the good books have indeed been translated into american

I will make a list of books from the german pov which I can recommend tomorrow, had a stressfull day today, so I'll dive down again after this message.

over and out,
Penguin

Schroeder · 12-09-10, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

outside! A quick amazon.com search has shown me that some of the good books have indeed been translated into american

Ah, yes, the American language...maybe I will bother to learn it one day.

12-09-10, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Ah, yes, the American language...maybe I will bother to learn it one day.

You might be better off to learn Spanish.

As a side?
Check out info on
'The Battle of Los Angeles'
UFO nuts claim it was a UFO.
Others claim all kinds of stuff.
Draw your own theory, but it is interesting given the time period.

Penguin · 12-10-10, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Ah, yes, the American language...maybe I will bother to learn it one day.

The Americans say that I speak with a British dialect (and a sweet

german accent) - the British claim that I babble with an american dialect.

I guess this makes me talking the English which the folks in BD77 speak.

TLAM Strike · 12-10-10, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Check out info on
'The Battle of Los Angeles'
...

We prefer to minimize the military aspect of it so we tend to call it "The 1992 LA Riots".

tater · 12-10-10, 01:56 PM

Cross of Iron?

Movies about the Germans follow a pattern (Stalingrad, das Boot, etc). Spend a while at the beginning showing us that the protagonists are not nazis, and don't like them. Have some "political officers" around that they can make fun of here and there too. Continue with a movie where the audience can like the protagonists.

Since the formula doesn't work on me, I watch those movies without any sympathy for the main characters

Letters from Iwo did the same thing, making it clear that the enlisted protagonist was taken against his will, as was the guy in the Kempeitai (show him as good guy, so we are not happy when he gets bumped off).

Penguin · 12-10-10, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

We prefer to minimize the military aspect of it so we tend to call it "The 1992 LA Riots".

Before I looked it up, I honestly thought this term would refer to the riots.

kranz · 12-11-10, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Cross of Iron?

Movies about the Germans follow a pattern (...)

Since the formula doesn't work on me, I watch those movies without any sympathy for the main characters

I'm wondering what would you say about Saving Private Ryan.

MH · 12-11-10, 06:36 AM

History written by victors?
While this may apply to Hollywood movies which are mostly worthless its not true for general research of ww2.
If you are interested in history read books but not just novels.
You still may have to draw your own conclusions on a lot of issues.

tater · 12-11-10, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranz

I'm wondering what would you say about Saving Private Ryan.

?

US made movies—recent ones—usually tend to show a dark side to the US forces. Summary execution, etc. I think it's laudable that we own up to that. That said, many of the US movies are far too lose with history for my taste. That they paint a heroic picture doesn't bother me, frankly, I have always made a point to seek out and talk to ww2 vets, and in my opinion they are a pretty heroic lot (though not one of them would ever say more than ('the real heros are still over there (whichever theater "there" was)—dead.")

The modern german formula makes sense to win viewers. Are there any german ww2 movies where a likable protagonist is a nazi, or even just not "anti" nazi in words (if not deeds, since merely continuing to fight is a "pro-nazi regime" deed). I suppose the obvious choice for a movie outside the "formula" is Downfall. The protagonist is the secretary, right? I suppose they get around the formula a little via sexism, a girl is allowed to be a credulous supporter through no fault of her own (she's just a girl, after all, she believed what she saw on the newsreels, contrary to everything going on around her).

I'm definitely gonna watch a few listed here I have no yet seen, that's for sure.

12-09-10, 05:01 PM	#35
Dan D Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: 9th Flotilla Posts: 839 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A neglected masterpiece of war literature: “The Stalin Front”, also published as “The Stalin Organ”, by Gert Ledig. Gert Ledig served in a Penal Battalion on the Eastern Front near Leningrad in summer 1942 as punishment for having made “communist statements”. “ Stalin Front is a harrowing, almost photographic, description of violence and devastation, one that brings home the unforgiving reality of total war (The New York Review of Books). Opening scene: “The Lance-Corporal couldn't turn in his grave, because he didn't have one. Some three versts from Podrova, forty versts south of Leningrad, he had been caught in a salvo of rockets, been thrown up in the air, and with severed hands and head dangling, been impaled on the skeletal branches of what once had been a tree. The NCO who was writhing on the ground with a piece of shrapnel in his belly, had no idea what was keeping his machine-gunner. It didn't occur to him to look up. He had his hands full with himself...” __________________

12-09-10, 04:11 PM	#31
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	Japanese movies about WWII: Fires on the Plain http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053121/ The Human Condition (actually a trilogy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum..._(film_trilogy)

12-09-10, 04:16 PM	#33
I-25 Commodore Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 629 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	here's more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_%28film%29 <- thats a good one http://eiga.wikia.com/wiki/Sea_Without_Exit i'm big on everything japanese

12-10-10, 01:56 PM	#41
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Cross of Iron? Movies about the Germans follow a pattern (Stalingrad, das Boot, etc). Spend a while at the beginning showing us that the protagonists are not nazis, and don't like them. Have some "political officers" around that they can make fun of here and there too. Continue with a movie where the audience can like the protagonists. Since the formula doesn't work on me, I watch those movies without any sympathy for the main characters Letters from Iwo did the same thing, making it clear that the enlisted protagonist was taken against his will, as was the guy in the Kempeitai (show him as good guy, so we are not happy when he gets bumped off).

12-11-10, 06:36 AM	#44
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	History written by victors? While this may apply to Hollywood movies which are mostly worthless its not true for general research of ww2. If you are interested in history read books but not just novels. You still may have to draw your own conclusions on a lot of issues.