This is repulsive [politics]

[Castout]

Republicans push to widen 'war on terror' detention

WASHINGTON (AFP) – One of President Barack Obama's top critics in the US Congress called for bolstering US powers to detain "war on terrorism" fighters -- including US citizens -- indefinitely and without trial.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101116...liticscongress

"without criminal charges and without trial" for the duration of the conflict,

Then all they have to do continue to insist the conflict isn't over with for the duration of the suspect(Or political enemy's) lifetime.

I wonder if Buck saw about his countries allies having to pay millions to suspected terrorists for dodgy the detention practices?

[Takeda Shingen]

I am failing to see how this will secure the border or reign in government spending, which were the hallmarks of their election, and items that we have heard little on. Instead, we get a largely empty token in the continued and failed war on terror. Perhaps John 'The American Dream' Boehner will weepily elaborate on how this will be the greatest thing to happen since the Declaration of Independence.

Typical Neo-Cons up to their typical garbage. It is becoming clearer that, as I have been saying for some time, these guys have learned nothing.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I am failing to see how this will secure the border or reign in government spending, which were the hallmarks of their election, and items that we have heard little on. Instead, we get a largely empty token in the continued and failed war on terror. Perhaps John 'The American Dream' Boehner will weepily elaborate on how this will be the greatest thing to happen since the Declaration of Independence.

Typical Neo-Cons up to their typical garbage. It is becoming clearer that, as I have been saying for some time, these guys have learned nothing.

Tak, you're forgetting - it's different™ this time.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Tak, you're forgetting - it's different™ this time.

It always is.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Castout

Republicans push to widen 'war on terror' detention





http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101116...liticscongress

Castout since you know I consider you a friend I won't come back with a kneejerk response.

Just what should my country do to protect itself from terrorism ?

[Aramike]

Sounds like a good idea to me, but I do think there should be hearings to determine whether or not there is ample evidence that each individual is indeed a terrorist fighter or collaborator, and each case should be revisted, say, biannually.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Sounds like a good idea to me, but I do think there should be hearings to determine whether or not there is ample evidence that each individual is indeed a terrorist fighter or collaborator, and each case should be revisted, say, biannually.

Please say who your responding to and explain what you mean.

Your thoughts are important.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Please say who your responding to and explain what you mean.

Your thoughts are important.

Important my eye...

Here's my humble opinion: our legal system was not set up to address the criminal who is a part of any massive, ongoing conspiracy designed to cause continuous harm and, ultimately, the complete destruction of the system itself.

Think about that for a moment, if you will - if, outside the context of terrorism, I said that there was an effort to undermine, damage, and destroy our very way of life would you actually find that to be criminal?

Seems like an act of war to me.

However, it really isn't. Terrorists are no more capable of waging war on us than, say, Haiti. Ultimately, this is something new we're facing.

So, it makes no sense to treat this as a traditional war. Furthermore, it makes even less sense to treat this as merely criminal. So what do we do?

My personal suggestion is the creation of a specific code of justice pertaining to terrorism, but alas, that is not on the agenda. However, in the mean time, it seems to me to make sense that we assure that people with a single-minded drive to do harm to us are unable to do so.

Hence, I am in favor of indefinite detention - so long as the cases are reviewed regularly and fairly, until which time we develop a code of justice pertaining specifically to the treatment of known terrorists. All cases should be subject to regular review.

Furthermore, I think our legal system, in cases of terrorism by non-citizens, should adopt a "guilty until proven innocent" policy so long as the charges are able to pass a judicial evidentiary hearing perhaps presided over by a grand jury.

That's what I meant. I doubt you'd want the long, mundane details of how I believe the judicial code should be revised regarding terrorism, but if you do, let me know.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Castout since you know I consider you a friend I won't come back with a kneejerk response.

Just what should my country do to protect itself from terrorism ?

You see sooner or later someone's going to abuse the war on terror and the victims would be innocent Americans. To make sure that the law doesn't get abused the law should be made so that the innocent should be able to defend their case reasonably against the charges brought against them. It's called justice and not purge. If you are being indiscriminate against all terror suspect including Americans who may not be guilty at all or even any citizenship then by what moral authority do you stand against the very terrorist you claim to make war with?

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Castout

For the two PMs you sent me I'm quite disappointed with you Firewall.


You see sooner or later someone's going to abuse the war on terror and the victims would be innocent Americans. To make sure that the law doesn't get abused the law should be made so that the innocent should be able to defend their case reasonably against the charges brought against them. It's called justice and not purge. If you are being indiscriminate against all terror suspect including Americans who may not be guilty at all then by what moral authority do you stand against the very terrorist you claim to make war with?

I think you misunderstood me. In these dangerous times how do we solve this and, make everyone happy.

Who knows, if we all discuss this we may come up with an answer.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

I think you misunderstood me. In these dangerous times how do we solve this and, make everyone happy.

Who knows, if we all discuss this we may come up with an answer.

No such thing as making everyone happy. The best we can do is find a method that works and serves the common good and the core values we have instituted.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Aramike

No such thing as making everyone happy. The best we can do is find a method that works and serves the common good and the core values we have instituted.

I go along with you Aramike. What is the best method that most Americans can live with ?