DARN IT!! How do you tell what nation they are??

[Sailor Steve]

The point is that they then place neutral ships inside enemy convoys, and kaleuns who sunk ships in convoys were given credit, no matter who the ships belonged to.

Setting neutrals to '0' still means you wasted torpedoes for no gain, so it's still a good idea not to do it if it can be avoided; but if they're in a convoy you shouldn't have to worry about losing credit for doing your job properly.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by privateer

(Much like War with Columbia over an 'OOPS! U-505 WTF?)

Please explain... I looked up 505, and while an interesting read, it didn't mention much about colombia, just a single patrol of SA where they got bombed and survived.

Best nugget i found on wikipedia was this:

While the boarding party secured U-505, Pillsbury attempted to take it in tow, but collided repeatedly with it and had to leave the area with three compartments flooded.

I kept thinking of the dough boy repeatedly getting poked in the belly by a u-boat.

[Draka]

From http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi...2/involved.htm

Colombia
After the attack on Pearl Harbour, Colombia broke diplomatic relations with the Axis powers. Then, in 1943, the U-505 German submarine destroyed a Colombian schooner, which caused Colombia to declare a "status of belligerency" against Germany. The German ambassador left the country and measures of control were implemented, including concentration of German citizens in designated areas.

From http://www.historynet.com/german-sub...d-war-ii.htm/1

U-505's double success seemed to have frightened away all other shipping in the area. For the next month, the sub spotted nothing but Allied aircraft. She had to crash-dive an average of more than once per day to avoid attack. Then, on July 22, a seemingly insignificant incident spelled the end of Axel Loewe's tenure as captain of U-505. 'We spotted a three-masted schooner flying no flag that was making violent zigzags back and forth,' Goebeler remembers. 'Not the kind of zigzags a sailing ship makes to move across the wind, but the kind a ship makes to avoid torpedoes. This made us suspicious, so we surfaced, and the Kapitän ordered a shot to be fired across her bow. Well, the deck officer must have misunderstood his order because the first shot took off the ship's mainmast, and that ship wasn't a sailing ship any more! We couldn't leave the evidence floating around, so we sank her with the deck gun.
'The boat turned out to be the property of a Colombian diplomat, and the incident caused Colombia to declare war against Germany! Well, at that point in the war, having Colombia declare war against Germany was like a dog howling at the moon; it doesn't matter to the moon at all. But Kapitän Loewe blamed himself. We finally had to stop our patrol and return to Lorient earlier than planned. Loewe was having very bad trouble with his appendix, but I think his worry over the sailing ship was the main problem.'
Admiral Donitz's comment in U-505's war diary was that the sinking of the schooner 'had better been left undone.' Loewe was relieved of his command and assigned to shore duty as a member of Donitz's staff. U-505's second war patrol, which had begun so auspiciously, had ended in frustration.




Oops! indeed.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Draka

"status of belligerency"

"Well, we're not officially at war, but we sure don't like you anymore!"

[Missing Name]

Is it bad that I regularly FlaK all allied schooners I come across? (At least I check for neutrality!)

[Tigershark624]

Very quickly, does GWX count the actual date of the sinking, or does it credit (or discredit) you when you return to port? I remember previous campaigns on my old system in which I had a British ship list as a neutral target sunk then later change to an Allied loss. How does GWX handle this?

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Tigershark624

Very quickly, does GWX count the actual date of the sinking, or does it credit (or discredit) you when you return to port? I remember previous campaigns on my old system in which I had a British ship list as a neutral target sunk then later change to an Allied loss. How does GWX handle this?

I'm pretty sure what counts is the date of the sinking - not the date you returned to base.

Originally Posted by Missing Name

Is it bad that I regularly FlaK all allied schooners I come across? (At least I check for neutrality!)

It's not "bad" like attacking a neutral or friendly, but I'm guessing the renown award probably isn't worth the ammo. Altho if you don't make a habit of duking it out with aircraft, maybe giving up some of your AA ammo for even a little renown is better than not using it all. Personally, I've actually finished off bigger targets with the flak guns when I was out of rounds for the 88 and didn't want to use another eel (or didn't have one of those left either). So I'd probably save it for bigger prey either way.

I remember one time, I was south of Florida, and spotted a schooner. I was probably within visual of him, but still a good distance away. I decided to let the fellow be, as it was probably just some foolhardy person out for a cruise.

By the time he was out of sight, aircraft came storming my way. I dove, waited two to three hours, and then surfaced. Who was back in sight, and heading the opposite direction of his original heading? (In the direction I last was headed) The schooner! I proceeded on my way again, and was attacked by more aircraft. Again, I dove and later, checked with a periscope before surfacing. Who was there? You guessed it. I proceeded to fill the boat with 20mm rounds and wasn't bothered by aircraft again.

The moral of the story? Some schooners are just stupid joes out for a joyride, during time of war, and others are overly-patriotic fellows who will rat you out, and make it their mission in life to hound you. They need to be dealt with!

[frau kaleun]

When was this (date in-game)?

After the success of Paukenschlag and the offensive that followed, when losses to u-boats in US coastal waters really started to pile up, the USN finally began accepting offers of assistance from civilians who wanted to volunteer themselves and their boats (usually relatively small pleasure craft) for ASW duty. And not just for reconnaissance only, some were even fitted out with anti-sub weaponry.

It's entirely possible that your "foolhardy person out for a cruise" was actually out there looking for you with training and equipment provided by good ol' Uncle Sam.

August 30th, 1943. This is back when I was using a Type IXC/40 sub. Just one more reason to admire the efforts of the GWX team!

[Gargamel]

OK, your opinions....

Unlit ships in know Allied high traffic shipping routes, where there are frequently lit up neutral ships, are totally fair game yes?

Just sank my 3rd consecutive unlit ships that was neutral.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

OK, your opinions....

Unlit ships in know Allied high traffic shipping routes, where there are frequently lit up neutral ships, are totally fair game yes?

Just sank my 3rd consecutive unlit ships that was neutral.

In real life I think that a commander who attacked a ship that behaved like a legitimate potential target during wartime would not catch a lot of flak for it. The behavior of the other ship is the responsibility of its commanding officer, if they are neutral and he chooses to sail a zigzag course and/or not set runnings lights at night, while traveling in the shipping lanes where belligerent nations are duking it out on a daily basis, then IMO he is tempting fate in a mighty big way. He is making his ship look like a valid target and by not being lit up making it harder to ID as anything else.

In fact I just read an account of something like that, can't remember the details (names, etc.) but a u-boat spotted a ship that was zigzagging and didn't set its lights when night fell, the commander attacked and the ship was sunk. The crew and captain got off and when the u-boat approached the life-rafts it turned out they were American and still neutral as this was prior to Dec 1941. But BdU determined that the commander was not at fault for the misidentification due to the actions/appearance of the other ship and he was not penalized.

The game, on the other hand, does not take those kinds of things into account AFAIK.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Tigershark624

Very quickly, does GWX count the actual date of the sinking, or does it credit (or discredit) you when you return to port? I remember previous campaigns on my old system in which I had a British ship list as a neutral target sunk then later change to an Allied loss. How does GWX handle this?

Date of sinking.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

OK, your opinions....

Unlit ships in know Allied high traffic shipping routes, where there are frequently lit up neutral ships, are totally fair game yes?

Just sank my 3rd consecutive unlit ships that was neutral.

A small tip....if they are lit they are neutral....the rest you'll come to learn through experience (perhaps all neutrals are not lit but then perhaps they are).

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

OK, your opinions....

Unlit ships in know Allied high traffic shipping routes, where there are frequently lit up neutral ships, are totally fair game yes?

Just sank my 3rd consecutive unlit ships that was neutral.

SH3 has no lit ships, period. GWX adds lit neutrals. All lit ships are neutral. Not all neutrals are lit, even in GWX. If you sink a neutral you will be awarded (or punished) for sinking a neutral. There is no "fair game" in SH3 - there is only what the game recognizes.