Why is the boat dark grey on the inside? - Page 3

Ducimus · 02-26-10, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

It seems...shock horror...that...shock...Das Boot may be...shock...wrong... Yeah, yeah, I know, impossible, but still...

Blasphemy! Repent now or be excommunicated and branded an infidel!

Bow to the one true god!

Greif8 · 02-26-10, 07:57 PM

If anyone is interested I can translate and post Section a, which deals with interior colors, of the document(s) that JScones posted. This is an important document that is mostly accurate and very helpful to determining correct colors. It also illustrates a few of the pitfalls researchers have to watchout for when using primary source documents as references. For example, the two rightmost columns in the 1940 document states: 2 Coats of fire resistant color RAL 9003 Ivory White.

RAL 9003 is actually Signal White, a very white shade. Why the mistake? Well there is no definitive answer, but IMHO I think the original translation had a mistake in it, very easy to make with some of the original German documents from WWII as they were in what was known as Frakturschrift, which can be hard to make out in older documents.

As an aside, as I am sure more then a few people are wondering how I happen to know something about this rather arcane subject, I am currently building the CMK interior sets for a 1/72 scale Type VIIc build. I spent a few months doing research and as luck would have it I was able to look at many original documents in the Military Archives in Germany.

Ernest

LiveGoat · 02-26-10, 08:04 PM

Dougie Martindale did a document about Kriegsmarine paint specs:

http://www.rokket.biz/models/modelsw...57/paint.shtml

This link talks about the interior a bit:

http://events.nace.org/library/artic...ures/uboat.asp

Greif8 · 02-26-10, 09:02 PM

Hi LiveGoat, Dougie did a great job on his document dealing with uboat colors, though his document covers mostly exterior colors. Understandable, as that document is was written a a reference for modellers. I post fairly frequently over on Dougie and Wink Guise's forum, and have talked with both of them about this very topic. Always informative and interesting!

Your second link describes the research and repainting process that Keith Gill's team did while refurbishing U505. As a result of their outstanding work U505 is the "gold standard" for what a uboat most likely looked during WWII. The link is a very good one.

Ernest

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveGoat

Dougie Martindale did a document about Kriegsmarine paint specs:

http://www.rokket.biz/models/modelsw...57/paint.shtml

This link talks about the interior a bit:

http://events.nace.org/library/artic...ures/uboat.asp

Elder-Pirate · 02-26-10, 09:29 PM

SHIV Gato ( USS Drum ) Modded interior:

Looks better than the SHV shots.

Well of course, it's American.

pythos · 03-01-10, 03:44 AM

So you all are saying that the presence of THE actual war time Commander of U-96 would not know the color of his own damn boat?

As far as Buchiem bitching about Das Boot, Have you all not read the novel? Yes as with any literary work stuff is left out, but the parts that are in the film ARE IN THE NOVEL, including the screaming crew!!!

Read the novel, it is in there. The brooding captain...in there, the boisterous crew at the hit of a torpedo...IN THERE!!!

In Iron Coffins, Werner describes the interior of the first boat he saw as Wood paneled and GRAY!!!.

Perhaps there were several schemes used over the course of the war.

GertFroebe_neu · 03-01-10, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

So you all are saying that the presence of THE actual war time Commander of U-96 would not know the color of his own damn boat?

As far as Buchiem bitching about Das Boot, Have you all not read the novel? Yes as with any literary work stuff is left out, but the parts that are in the film ARE IN THE NOVEL, including the screaming crew!!!

Read the novel, it is in there. The brooding captain...in there, the boisterous crew at the hit of a torpedo...IN THERE!!!

In Iron Coffins, Werner describes the interior of the first boat he saw as Wood paneled and GRAY!!!.

Perhaps there were several schemes used over the course of the war.

Calm down! Buchheim also took a lot of photos in the war. On these photos it can be seen, that the uboat was ivory-colored (or white because of the black/white photos).

pythos · 03-03-10, 11:06 PM

I have since seen German propaganda films, and the interior of the boats seem to vary, it is possible one yard did things differently than the other. It is possible U-96 had a grey interior, and the boat Buchiem took pictures on other than 96 had the white interior.

Bilge_Rat · 03-26-10, 12:43 PM

for those who don't visit the mod forum, modders have already released a white interior:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166161

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165759

modders are doing some amazing work..

SteamWake · 03-26-10, 01:21 PM

LOL three pages of rant on the color of paint and its already been modded... Priceless !

Nordmann · 03-26-10, 01:30 PM

Not surprising really, why rant, when you fix. Simple really. Besides, I'm sure many boats differed greatly, especially when production ramped up.

msxyz · 03-26-10, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerm138

Plus a dark boat does give a much more claustrophobic feel, which is one of the best things about Das Boot.

Boats were painted in bright colors also to have a positive effect on the sailors' morale. The same is done today in space stations (ever seen interior shots of Salyut and Mir? They were painted in light blue, a color very close to the tint used inside soviet subs of the era).

SabreHawk · 03-26-10, 02:19 PM

Someone said it right, accuracy on something like this isn't everything. And on this color subject, one must consider the effect a white interior color will have on your eyes staring at it on your monitor for the lengths of time we do.
IMO, it's likely to be too bright and hard on the eyes after a while. So this color choice the DEV's made is probably due to this.
All simulation is a comprimise from the real thing and some things like this are done like it is as they are to accomidate the limits of the human eye, and the strain it may have on it.
One reason why I like the colors of this forum for instance, over those of other's I visit who's background is white. Very hard on my eyes, and I really notice the difference when I've been reading here for a while, and then go to say RCG foums and my eyes just go bonkers with it's white background.

Nordmann · 03-26-10, 02:21 PM

That is very true actually. I dislike bright colours, especially those displayed on a monitor; bright white being one of the worst offenders for headaches. This forum has possibly the best theme I have seen, not too dark, and not too bright either.

SteamWake · 03-26-10, 02:39 PM

Heh... maybe they did it to extend laptop battery time

02-26-10, 09:29 PM	#35
Elder-Pirate Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Morris, Illinois USA Posts: 1,090 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	SHIV Gato ( USS Drum ) Modded interior: Looks better than the SHV shots. Well of course, it's American. __________________

03-26-10, 12:43 PM	#39
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	for those who don't visit the mod forum, modders have already released a white interior: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166161 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165759 modders are doing some amazing work.. __________________

03-26-10, 01:21 PM	#40
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	LOL three pages of rant on the color of paint and its already been modded... Priceless ! __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

03-26-10, 01:30 PM	#41
Nordmann Commodore Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: England Posts: 628 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Not surprising really, why rant, when you fix. Simple really. Besides, I'm sure many boats differed greatly, especially when production ramped up. __________________ "I must confess that my imagination refuses to see any sort of submarine doing anything but suffocating its crew and floundering at sea." - H. G. Wells

03-26-10, 02:19 PM	#43
SabreHawk Captain Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle, Wa. USA Posts: 530 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Someone said it right, accuracy on something like this isn't everything. And on this color subject, one must consider the effect a white interior color will have on your eyes staring at it on your monitor for the lengths of time we do. IMO, it's likely to be too bright and hard on the eyes after a while. So this color choice the DEV's made is probably due to this. All simulation is a comprimise from the real thing and some things like this are done like it is as they are to accomidate the limits of the human eye, and the strain it may have on it. One reason why I like the colors of this forum for instance, over those of other's I visit who's background is white. Very hard on my eyes, and I really notice the difference when I've been reading here for a while, and then go to say RCG foums and my eyes just go bonkers with it's white background. __________________ "Chance favors the prepared mind"

02-26-10, 07:57 PM	#32
Greif8 Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	If anyone is interested I can translate and post Section a, which deals with interior colors, of the document(s) that JScones posted. This is an important document that is mostly accurate and very helpful to determining correct colors. It also illustrates a few of the pitfalls researchers have to watchout for when using primary source documents as references. For example, the two rightmost columns in the 1940 document states: 2 Coats of fire resistant color RAL 9003 Ivory White. RAL 9003 is actually Signal White, a very white shade. Why the mistake? Well there is no definitive answer, but IMHO I think the original translation had a mistake in it, very easy to make with some of the original German documents from WWII as they were in what was known as Frakturschrift, which can be hard to make out in older documents. As an aside, as I am sure more then a few people are wondering how I happen to know something about this rather arcane subject, I am currently building the CMK interior sets for a 1/72 scale Type VIIc build. I spent a few months doing research and as luck would have it I was able to look at many original documents in the Military Archives in Germany. Ernest

02-26-10, 08:04 PM	#33
LiveGoat XO Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 408 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 0	Dougie Martindale did a document about Kriegsmarine paint specs: http://www.rokket.biz/models/modelsw...57/paint.shtml This link talks about the interior a bit: http://events.nace.org/library/artic...ures/uboat.asp

03-01-10, 03:44 AM	#36
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	So you all are saying that the presence of THE actual war time Commander of U-96 would not know the color of his own damn boat? As far as Buchiem bitching about Das Boot, Have you all not read the novel? Yes as with any literary work stuff is left out, but the parts that are in the film ARE IN THE NOVEL, including the screaming crew!!! Read the novel, it is in there. The brooding captain...in there, the boisterous crew at the hit of a torpedo...IN THERE!!! In Iron Coffins, Werner describes the interior of the first boat he saw as Wood paneled and GRAY!!!. Perhaps there were several schemes used over the course of the war.

03-03-10, 11:06 PM	#38
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	I have since seen German propaganda films, and the interior of the boats seem to vary, it is possible one yard did things differently than the other. It is possible U-96 had a grey interior, and the boat Buchiem took pictures on other than 96 had the white interior.

03-26-10, 02:21 PM	#44
Nordmann Commodore Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: England Posts: 628 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	That is very true actually. I dislike bright colours, especially those displayed on a monitor; bright white being one of the worst offenders for headaches. This forum has possibly the best theme I have seen, not too dark, and not too bright either. __________________ "I must confess that my imagination refuses to see any sort of submarine doing anything but suffocating its crew and floundering at sea." - H. G. Wells

03-26-10, 02:39 PM	#45
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Heh... maybe they did it to extend laptop battery time __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648