Time running out for Israeli-Iranian showdown?

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Certainly smart enough to realize what would bring about their destruction.

Tsk, tsk.

If the United States or Israel goes to war with Iran, then Russia will be there to fight with them. Ahmadinejad and Putin signed an alliance. It would end up a loss for the United States and most certainly for Israel if a war began, and even if the United States took Iran, then the American economy would be destroyed when the Iranians sabotage and destroy their oil wells whilst shipping reserve barrels to Russia. They would bleed this country dry. If they stopped giving us oil, the price per barrel would soar well over $200.

With Russia having a load of nuclear weapons, I wouldn't be surprised either if it did come to nuclear war, in which case North Korea would join Russia and Iran since they all kind of stick together and have good relations with one another.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Tsk, tsk.

If the United States or Israel goes to war with Iran, then Russia will be there to fight with them. Ahmadinejad and Putin signed an alliance. It would end up a loss for the United States and most certainly for Israel if a war began, and even if the United States took Iran, then the American economy would be destroyed when the Iranians sabotage and destroy their oil wells whilst shipping reserve barrels to Russia. They would bleed this country dry. If they stopped giving us oil, the price per barrel would soar well over $200.

With Russia having a load of nuclear weapons, I wouldn't be surprised either if it did come to nuclear war, in which case North Korea would join Russia and Iran since they all kind of stick together and have good relations with one another.

I see a lot of wishfull thinking here SH. Russian and Germany also signed a pact once and look how that turned out. What happens if the Russians don't come and pull your chestnuts out of the fire you created? What if, for example, the allies were to promise Russia that warm water port they've always wanted, and maybe half the oil fields in return for staying out of it?

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

From New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/we...rssnyt&emc=rss

"But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran's most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.

The second translation issue concerns the word "map." Khomeini's words were abstract: "Sahneh roozgar." Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as "map," and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr. Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not "Sahneh roozgar" but "Safheh roozgar," meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word "map" again.

Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: "It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word 'map' was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words 'sahneh roozgar' are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific. Maybe it was interpreted as 'book of countries,' and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard 'Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad' — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches."

The final translation issue is Mr. Ahmadinejad's use of "occupying regime of Jerusalem" rather than "Israel."

To some analysts, this means he is calling for regime change, not war, and therefore it need not be regarded as a call for military action. Professor Cole, for example, says: "I am entirely aware that Ahmadinejad is hostile to Israel. The question is whether his intentions and capabilities would lead to a military attack, and whether therefore pre-emptive warfare is prescribed. I am saying no, and the boring philology is part of the reason for the no."

But to others, "occupying regime" signals more than opposition to a certain government; the phrase indicates the depth of the Iranian president's rejection of a Jewish state in the Middle East because he refuses even to utter the name Israel. He has said that the Palestinian issue "does not lend itself to a partial territorial solution" and has called Israel "a stain" on Islam that must be erased. By contrast, Mr. Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, said that if the Palestinians accepted Israel's existence, Iran would go along.

When combined with Iran's longstanding support for Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah of Lebanon, two groups that have killed numerous Israelis, and Mr. Ahmadinejad's refusal to acknowledge the Holocaust, it is hard to argue that, from Israel's point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel.

So did Iran's president call for Israel to be wiped off the map? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question."

Not surprised the New York Times would start this up. When one station starts saying this stuff, they all typically follow. I've begun to distrust the American news anymore. I'll listen to things about flooding and bad weather and events, but these people are useless otherwise. FOX News for instance tried to pin the California Forest Fires on Al-Qaeda, because apparently terrorists are running rampant in this country (reminds me a lot of the Salem Witch Trials and the Red Scare).

Ahamadinejad said (and I quote from Farsi):

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

The 2005 video I can't find, or at least without some newscaster talking over him. If you can find it, listen carefully to the words he uses.

Originally Posted by August

What happens if the Russians don't come and pull your chestnuts out of the fire you created? What if, for example, the allies were to promise Russia that warm water port they've always wanted, and maybe half the oil fields in return for staying out of it?

Remember though that Iran also supplies Russia with a huge amount of oil. Although the Russians have oil fields of their own, nothing produces as well as an Iranian oil well. They've got the third largest reserve of it in the world.

[Steel_Tomb]

O/T I personally can't wait for the day when we can free ourselves from the need for oil, give the arab nations a great big slap in the face and tell them that they can't hold our economies hostage over hydrocarbons anymore .

Back on topic....

I think its very nieve to think that Ajaminidad (sp?) doesn't want to see Israel destroyed, of course he does... hes an arab, of which the majority would like to see every israeli turffed out of the Middle East. Irans backing of extemeist militias such as Hezbollah are prime examples of this. Also, to deny the holocaust... what madness is this? How can one say such an event didn't happen? Its like saying the First World War never took place and everyone went round Lenin's house for a brew . I hope it doesn't come to armed conflict, but if Europe continues to faff about arguing amongst eachother about what sanctions to place and the UN's plans get VETO'd by Russia and China I can see no other alternative. I will die before I see a nation which so openly supports the use of Jihad to wage a "war" against innocent civillians gain nuclear technology. There may not be an immidiate threat, but as nuclear technology becomes easier and easier to produce, the consequences of such weaponry falling into the hands of extremists, who aren't afraid to die or contemplate the consequences of their actions the results aren't even worth thinking about...

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by August

I see a lot of wishfull thinking here SH. Russian and Germany also signed a pact once and look how that turned out. What happens if the Russians don't come and pull your chestnuts out of the fire you created? What if, for example, the allies were to promise Russia that warm water port they've always wanted, and maybe half the oil fields in return for staying out of it?

You can't seriously believe Russia will go to nuclear war for Iran?

PD

[Stealth Hunter]

Where are you getting that information?:hmm:

Ahmadinejad isn't an Arab; he's an Iranian. And before you get stereotypical on Middle-Easterners, we do not all look alike. You might also be interested to know that if you called an Arab an Iranian and an Iranian an Arab in the street, you'd be running from an angry mob in seconds. We don't like to be confused with one another.

The part about the Holocaust... I've never really known if he actually meant that or if he just said it to stir up trouble (kind of like Howard Stern with his jokes and what have you; he does it for publicity). Either way, it's a personal view, and although we know it's wrong, the majority of the Iranian people do not dislike Jews nor do they think the Holocaust never happened. The view of a single person does not constitute the view of an entire nation, no matter how powerful the person may be.

As for the rest of that post... just remember all Middle-Easterners aren't terrorists.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

You can't seriously believe Russia will go to nuclear war for Iran?

You don't know as much as you'd like to think about relations between the two countries. That's not trying to seem rude, mind you, but if you've stayed in Iran or even lived there, you'd know that there's a lot of talk between the countries... very secretive and very sensitive topics, might I add...

They're very good friends once you get under the surface.

If it became a war for fuel, then it's very possible that it would result in nuclear conflict (and the one thing Russia has always wanted is resources; they might have enough, but it never hurts to have a little more, especially when your ally has the third largest reserve in the world!).

bebakhchid

It's Bebackshid. Also, you misspelled fransi.

Otherwise, good job. Did you learn to speak Farsi or just write it?

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

You might also be interested to know that if you called an Arab an Iranian and an Iranian an Arab in the street, you'd be running from an angry mob in seconds. We don't like to be confused with one another.

Apparently there's lots of things y'all don't like. From what i've read folks in that part of the world don't need much of a reason at all to form an angry mob.

[Steel_Tomb]

Of course I didn't mean ALL muslims/arabs or whatever, that would be like saying all Americans are fat! Its simply not true.

HOWEVER, you cannot deny that there is a deep hatred of the west and the western way of living in the middle east.... people cheering an celebrating on 9/11 is a sick example of such things.

I stand corrected on Ajaminidad, hes Iranian then (I though arab/iranean were one and the same sorry).

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by August

From what i've read folks in that part of the world don't need much of a reason at all to form an angry mob.

:rotfl:

School teachers are paid... what? Around $25,000-$33,000?:hmm:

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

:rotfl:

School teachers are paid... what? Around $25,000-$33,000?:hmm:

No. A public school teacher with a master's degree and experience can expect upwards of $70k. Also, be careful when disparaging educators on this forum.

For all, let's cool down. It's too hot to fight.

The Management

[Stealth Hunter]

In the city perhaps.

Please note I'm not too open of racist/stereotypical comments, either.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

In the city perhaps.

Actually, it's the reverse. City teachers tend to be on the lower end of the scale. You need to go to the suburbs to find the real pay.

[Stealth Hunter]

I might keep that in mind. Interesting information.:hmm:

[Stealth Hunter]

It's a difficult language if you're not raised with it.

If you can read and write and speak it, you could get a very good governmental job in translation services. They pay a lot.