Abortion and You

[dean_acheson]

I think that we have mildly skirted a more important issue here:

"Do you think Abortion should remain a right to American Citizens."

The fact is, is that the way things are now, us "American Citizens" have absolutely NO SAY in if abortions are legal or not legal. The US Supreme Court has decided that for all of us.

Really nice of them.

When the USSC handed down the Roe decision, they overrode every statelaw on the issue. The said that a woman has some fuzzy 'right to privacy' that extends to her womb. This "constitutional right" allowed her to terminate her pregnancy. This 'constitutional right' that Justice Douglas found in the 'penumbras' of the Bill of Rights removed this decision from every elected politician in the country.

The day that the one unelected branch of the United State government decided that it was up to them to decide a moral issue of this import, was a poor day in the Court's history, as black as the day that prior Courts handed down Dred Scott, the Plessy case, Lochner, or any other decision in which the US Supreme Court decided to make a moral decision to guide us poor misguided fools that make up the electorate.

Until the Court decides to throw Roe on the scrap heap of history and allow us to have a debate on this matter, and decide the issue in our state legislatures, where according to any honest reading of the U.S. Constitution would place it, this matter is for all intents and purposes settled.

An aside note: Many pols. on both sides love the fact that they can get folks up in arms over this, since they can stir up their core electorate on the matter, when as things stand, this matter is one controlled by the Article Three branch of government.

[dean_acheson]

Sorry, that is why I voted 'undecided' since it doesn't matter what I decide on this issue.

[geetrue]

What happens if America has to go to war? Say in the next 18 years ...

Who's going to fight in the next big one, pretend they could get out of the starting gate with all of these nuclear weapons available?

We don't know do we ... but we do know who won't be fighting those future wars.

The tens of thousands of fetus babies tied up in garbage sacks and disposed of in a big furnace.

Think about it ... selective breeding is on the way. Hell it's already here.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

Bad analogy.

The tramp CHOSE to enter and live in the shed.

A fetus is now a trespasser? That suggests somehow it had free will and chose to end up in a womb.

It's not really much of a choice if the tramp will die out side the warmth of the shead.

However, that is irrelevant: choice or not someone who is occupying your body with
out permission is trespassing. Even if they have no choice, you still have the right to
evict them by force.

[RickC Sniper]

If you acknowledge that they are "someone" you already have decided the issue.

A fetus can be legally aborted. A "someone" cannot. The whole abortion debate hangs on the question of "when does the fetus becomes a person".

[Knipper]

Why is this topic here? What does it have to do with sinking allied shipping? Fer god's sake if you want to talk about this stuff, log in to dead babies.com or something.

[Platapus]

This is a very difficult question to answer. Not only are there legal and medical issues involved but there are moral ones. Many would say that the moral issues are the most important of the three.

I would agree.

This is why the decision whether a woman should or should not have an abortion needs to rest with the individual (with the advice of a medical/legal/moral professionals) and not the state or federal government.

I can not see any decision that will be acceptable to all citizens except the decision that the state/federal government won't make the decision.

If you think that an abortion is morally acceptable to you at this time, then get one
If you think that an abortion is not morally acceptable to you at this time, then don't get one.

The only "moral" decision is to give people the choice.

Here is an interesting concept to consider:

If life (in the legal sense) starts at conception, then why is a woman who miscarries not convicted of involuntary manslaughter?

Involuntary manslaughter means that you did not intend the death right?

Like I said, a most difficult question to answer

[Knipper]

oh for god's sake......

[Penelope_Grey]

LOL this is great... a bunch of men debating abortion!?

I thought I'd seen everything till now... Let me just say, having an abortion may not be morally right, or a nice thing, but sometimes its got to be done. Better to not have a baby than to have one and just not want it and see it took into care or something or just generally upset that persons life.

Yes people should take care, but accidents happen. The father should get input, I agree but he doesn't need the final say. That is the childs mother always.

Having said that, there should be a cut off point somewhere as to when you say right, you cannot legally have this. That cut of point should be when the clump of cells progresses to an actual baby.

EDIT: not that I am an American citizen or nothing.. . but well, its a hot potato in the UK too at the best of times is Abortion

[Dowly]

Every woman has the right to do abortion. And if somebody points to the killing of "innocent children" I just point them to the ka-zillion cases where man has killed millions of "innocent children" as 'collateral damage'.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

If you acknowledge that they are "someone" you already have decided the issue.

A fetus can be legally aborted. A "someone" cannot. The whole abortion debate hangs on the question of "when does the fetus becomes a person".

I disagree. What name we give something makes no differance and is impossible to answer.

I think that if you acknowledge that every human has a right to own their body, you
have already decided the issue.

The whole abortion debate hangs on the question of "Should another person have a
right to my body, the food I eat, etc.".

If not, thgen abortion is less killing and more eviction. In the same way we turn off
life support machines.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Knipper

Why is this topic here? What does it have to do with sinking allied shipping? Fer god's sake if you want to talk about this stuff, log in to dead babies.com or something.

This is the 'General Topics' forum. It is specifically for debating everything BUT sinking Allied shipping. If you don't like it, you don't have to read the posts.

[silentrunner]

I don't think anyone would be pro choice if their mother's had gotten an abortion for a few reasons.
1. We all like being alive.
2. Wouldn't you feel bad if youre mother didn't want you.
3. MOST importantly you could not be either pro life or pro choice because you would allready be dead.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by silentrunner

I don't think anyone would be pro choice if their mother's had gotten an abortion for a few reasons.
1. We all like being alive.
2. Wouldn't you feel bad if youre mother didn't want you.
3. MOST importantly you could not be either pro life or pro choice because you would allready be dead.

How would you feel if you were born and your mother didn't want you?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

This is the 'General Topics' forum. It is specifically for debating everything BUT sinking Allied shipping. If you don't like it, you don't have to read the posts.

Only an old man like Steve could get away with something like that.