War Topic: what would YOU have done re Pearl Harbor?

There was a recent discussion here about an historian on PBS and his ideas regarding what the IJN was going to do. Along with a suggestion that they invade Hawaii, etc, and the suggestion that they hold it in order to cause the US to beg for peace.

Now, all the political discussions aside, if YOU were in charge of the Japanese fleet, and committed to making the first stike on Pearl, how would YOU have followed-up on that attack, i.e., send in another wave of bombers, send in an invasion force, take over Midway (or invade/hold Midway AND Hawaii)?

So as a strategy game, how would YOU have brought the US Navy to it's knees? Remember, the first strike already took place - you're committed now to either win greatly, or die in an atomic fireball.

No pressure.

[SUBMAN1]

I think Japan would have had they found the AMerican carriers. THe fact that they didn't at the time of the attack probably made them a little leary about hanging around waiting for them to counter attack.

I think what we had here was a classic case of fog of war.

-S

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Zayphod

US to beg for peace.

Never would of happen even if it went all Japans way, America would recover and fight back.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by STEED

Never would of happen even if it went all Japans way, America would recover and fight back.

That would be true. Most of the US is a proud nation so I doubt that would even happen today, given more equal military terms such as found back then.

-S

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

That would be true. Most of the US is a proud nation so I doubt that would even happen today, given more equal military terms such as found back then.

-S

Good point - as I run this scene in my head, I see Japan sending in an invasion force to take Hawaii, and another force taking Midway, securing their ports and bases for use by the IJN. Using them as a base, the only thing the US would have left would be to use carriers to transport planes into the battlefield to try to take Hawaii back.

My point was that it would have been 10 times harder for the US to recover had Hawaii been taken and held.

I agree with you, however, that the US would have never begged for peace. It just would have taken much longer (I think) for the US to have won the war in the Pacific had they lost Hawaii from the get-go.

[joea]

Well the Nihon Kaigun site has a good article explaining why it would have been almost impossible for Japan to put together a force to invade Hawaii.


http://www.combinedfleet.com/pearlops.htm

[Skybird]

Probably no matter what Japan would have or could have done, in the end the constant shifting of balance in favour of the immense industrial potential of the US would have decided it all against japan. I am sure that JDR was convinced to win it from the very beginning. For those Japanese knowing America, it must have been clear from the beginning that they were starting a desperate fight for pure survival. In the movie "Tora Tora Tora", Yamato is presented as a commander who knew this very well. Without trying to brake the American strangling of Japan's need for oil, it also would have been a desperate situation for Japan. So they were damned when striking Pearl, and were damned if not striking Pearl.

I belong to those people thinking that JDR knew all this very well, and saw this as the needed key event to get the war-antipathic US (the population) into the war in Europe, which until Pearl Harbour was no popular option.

What I would have done as Japanese commander after the strike on Pearl? The movie paints it like the commander wanting to preserve the Japanese fleet for the war that just had been launched by hurting the awakling giant. In principle that was right, and there was not much meaning in going to possess Hawai, strategically, it would have left the Japanese wih too much space and too long supply lines to cover, imo. But i would have stayed a while in the region, trying to find and sink the missing carriers, before heading West again.

Originally Posted by joea

Well the Nihon Kaigun site has a good article explaining why it would have been almost impossible for Japan to put together a force to invade Hawaii.


http://www.combinedfleet.com/pearlops.htm

Thanks for that link, very interesting read.

Based on the information I just read, Japan seemed to have jumped the gun, starting this war a tad too soon, then, since they didn't have the resources to subdue and hold Hawaii.

As an alternative, a carrier could have been stationed near enough to launch an occasional attack on Pearl during the repair process, keeping the base unusable for the US. Failing that, it seems they sealed their own fate when they attacked, and then left us to repair, rebuild, and come back at them.

My main question though, is what could have been done differently, i.e, wait a few more months until an invasion COULD have been made, etc? I realize that the further out the IJN extended itself from home base, the more difficult it is to hold on to stuff.

[TLAM Strike]

Drop bombs with poison gas all over hawaii until almost the entire population is dead, then invade. Use Pearl as a base to launch simalier attacks against the US West Coast to force the US not on a defensive of the Pacific but a defensive of its mainland. Imagain this going on the same time as Dumbeat in the Atlantic.

If I lost I would be hung for warcrimes but it might just suceed in adding a few years to the war just in time for all those fancy "wonder weapons" to show up in both theaters. At that point who know what why the war might go. :hmm:

[Letum]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Drop bombs with poison gas all over hawaii until almost the entire population is dead, then invade. Use Pearl as a base to launch simalier attacks against the US West Coast to force the US not on a defensive of the Pacific but a defensive of its mainland. Imagain this going on the same time as Dumbeat in the Atlantic.

If I lost I would be hung for warcrimes but it might just suceed in adding a few years to the war just in time for all those fancy "wonder weapons" to show up in both theaters. At that point who know what why the war might go. :hmm:

What do you do when/if you get naval control and dominance over costal, weststern America?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Letum

What do you do when/if you get naval control and dominance over costal, weststern America?

Keep the remaineder of the US Fleet bottled up and take control of the Pacific. I wouldn't invade the US Mainland (Aside from the occasonal raid), and try to destroy as much of the US ship building on the west coast as possable.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Drop bombs with poison gas all over hawaii until almost the entire population is dead, then invade. Use Pearl as a base to launch simalier attacks against the US West Coast to force the US not on a defensive of the Pacific but a defensive of its mainland. Imagain this going on the same time as Dumbeat in the Atlantic.

See, that was my thinking as well (the holding Hawaii as a base, not the poison gas thing), since whoever holds it has a huge base at the half-way point across the Pacific. Look at why Hawaii was so important to the US, and you'd understand why it would have been just as important to the Japanese. With no refuling base anywhere decent in the Pacific, the US would have had to base their ships in San Francisco / Los Angeles until much, much later in the war.

Using Hawaii as a refuling point for their ships, the IJN could have pinned the US Navy back to the west coast (at least, until the industrial might of the US managed to re-build the fleet).

Interesting 'what if', isn't it?

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Keep the remaineder of the US Fleet bottled up and take control of the Pacific. I wouldn't invade the US Mainland (Aside from the occasonal raid), and try to destroy as much of the US ship building on the west coast as possable.

Agreed. Once pinned against the wall, rebuilding ships would have been much more difficult, and without carriers, we never could have re-taken Hawaii. Without Hawaii, no taking Midway, and without Midway, no other islands to the west. Sort of like chess, huh?

[fatty]

Blast Pearl and then keep going on to seize Panama.

[RickC Sniper]

It must have been hell for Yamamoto to be asked to start a war he himself felt could not be won.

I believe the decision makers in Japan hoped to grab control of the entire western Pacific rim, then sue for peace. They felt America as didn't want a war and didn't have the stomach for a long war.

I'd have stayed around Pearl long enough to find the American Carriers. That was crucial to the follow up of taking Midway.

@Sailor Steve that was hilarious.
:p

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by fatty

Blast Pearl and then keep going on to seize Panama.

Why? Pacific coast shipbuilding industries were more than sufficient to make up for the numbers lost in Pearl. Seizing Panama results in the taking of a relatively insignificant facility while dangerously overextending Japan's already overextended forces.