Tom Chick's Silent Hunter 4 review in Gamespy - Page 3

Skubber · 05-14-07, 08:27 AM

I think the reviewer hit it right on the head. The game is sooo close to being sublime.

It still could be.

Forget about the manual and tutorials for newbies. It's too late for that.

If they just get the various gameplay issues sorted, and the few atmosphere-killing graphical flaws (transparent crew, laser-beam lighthouses, you-know-this-old-saw-by-now) ...

... if they could just fix these few things, SH4 could still be the most excellasubadocious sim ever created.

tater · 05-14-07, 09:08 AM

Sorry, but "dynamic" has a very specific meaning in relation to games. Yes, there is confusion because the word also has a non-technical meaning, but that is not an excuse. The game is not dynamic, not at all.

In the context of talking about a campaign in a game, the actions of the player MUST change the campaign or the campaign is not dynamic. With triggers, you could argue that individual missions/patrols are dynamic in game, but not the campaign.

tater

bruschi sauro · 05-14-07, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D'biter

has ubisoft announed an SH5?????

impossible!!!:rotfl:

Steeltrap · 05-14-07, 09:53 AM

If they do announce it, here's my nomination for its title.......

SH-V "Silent Developers": Bug Hunt in the Black Sea

XanderF · 05-14-07, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Sorry, but "dynamic" has a very specific meaning in relation to games. Yes, there is confusion because the word also has a non-technical meaning, but that is not an excuse. The game is not dynamic, not at all.

In the context of talking about a campaign in a game, the actions of the player MUST change the campaign or the campaign is not dynamic. With triggers, you could argue that individual missions/patrols are dynamic in game, but not the campaign.

tater

Ummm...no offense, but...since when?

You seem to have a definition of "dynamic" you are happy with, but I confess I've seen no definition of that term in any dictionaly that matches what you are describing.

The second definition in the "American Heritage Dictionary" has...

Quote:

Characterized by continuous change, activity, or progress

...which...well, it is.

tater · 05-14-07, 06:15 PM

I think almost everyone agrees that a "dynamic campaign" in one in which player actions alter the course of the campaign.

In a flight sim, if you get a mission to destroy a given target, once it is totally destroyed you shouldn't be tasked with destroying it again—at least not until a point far enough in the future that it has been rebuilt.

In the case of SH4, the bare minimum, IMO, is some persistance past the end of a given patrol. If 2xYamato are sunk, it should be possible to never have any chance of seeing a Yamato BB again. That's my minimum requirement for a dynamic campaign instead of a "random campaign" which is what SH4 has. If the typical sub is sinking 1-2 ships per patrol, and you sink 100,000 tons of mostly merchants in a given area, you'd expect the enemy to react to that and steer traffic elsewhere, or use more escorts in that region. In game? Nothing. the player in no way changes the game world, not even a little.

McBeck · 05-15-07, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I think almost everyone agrees that a "dynamic campaign" in one in which player actions alter the course of the campaign.

In a flight sim, if you get a mission to destroy a given target, once it is totally destroyed you shouldn't be tasked with destroying it again—at least not until a point far enough in the future that it has been rebuilt.

In the case of SH4, the bare minimum, IMO, is some persistance past the end of a given patrol. If 2xYamato are sunk, it should be possible to never have any chance of seeing a Yamato BB again. That's my minimum requirement for a dynamic campaign instead of a "random campaign" which is what SH4 has. If the typical sub is sinking 1-2 ships per patrol, and you sink 100,000 tons of mostly merchants in a given area, you'd expect the enemy to react to that and steer traffic elsewhere, or use more escorts in that region. In game? Nothing. the player in no way changes the game world, not even a little.

I think there are several layers of Dynamic.

1) If you start the same patrol over and over...the objectives will change.
If you go to the same spot and a certain time again and again...you will see different ships, weather and what not.
You will not be able to influence the war.

2) Same as above, but you choices and actions will have some effect...IE if you sink the Yamato, it will not appear again in the game.

The problem with nr 2 is that given the tonnage we get on our patrols we will change the ressources of the enemy to an unhistoric/unrealistic level.
Worst case: We will sink most of their ships early and have nothing to hunt for...

So I think the devs did it like nr 1, so they game will continueously give us the level of contacts we should experience.

HarleyRider · 05-15-07, 11:09 AM

IMO, the only sim that has a TRULY "dynamic campaign" is "Falcon 4.0" or the newer version "Falcon 4.0: Allied Force". With F4, however you perform on a mission will drastically effect the out come down the road.

For instance, if you are ordered to bomb a bridge to keep the enemy from transporting supplies across it and you fail, you will pay the consequenses later in the sim because the enemy WAS able to transport those supplies across that bridge to support your enemy. Therefore it will change the balance of the war.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers!!!

edjcox · 05-16-07, 12:41 AM

Here's one issue for you

By default the Torps are all set to long range slow speed..

Now I tend to get close and shoot high speed fairly exclusively...

Because of the defalt setting I have to reset all of the load Torps to high speed clicking each indivdually using that lousy low high interface....

That's an example of interface issues...

Would really be nice to have a toggle to set the default to high speed... Now if I want to chance a long range shot on a an idiot who doesn't know what Zig Zag means I can..

A few others like this could really make the game more enjoyable.

Here's one more...

You sight a target and swing your Deck gun onto to it... Would be nice if your range setting would be fairly close to dead on say a few hundred yards = or -.. Instead your guessing and wasting precious rounds trying to bracket.... Perhaps a window with an overhead view showing your water splashes short or long allowing you to adjust.. Again these could be options or crutches for learning players that the purists could switch off...

I still think the battle damage control window is totally lacking in adequate data to manage there tasks. Damage seems never to reduce on some items until poof it's fixed... Prioritizing your crews efforts is a captains decision.. You wanna fight some more or go and hide for a while to fix up systems you may employ when you reengage.. The way it is now your hard pressed to determine what is being fixed and when it will be available... I can here you now.. that's the way it was...

Well yes but part of this game is to make you feel like your efforts can change things and the outcome.. If indeed you sink even if you repair and slink away.. well ...

The bright side of this game is that these and so many other issues are within reach of the modders..

Neal what I'd like to see is some commo about what UBI plans to fix in the next mod and when they plan to leave this baby beind on the street for strangers to feed clothe and rear...:rotfl:

05-14-07, 08:27 AM	#31
Skubber Officer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rochester, NY, USA Posts: 239 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	I think the reviewer hit it right on the head. The game is sooo close to being sublime. It still could be. Forget about the manual and tutorials for newbies. It's too late for that. If they just get the various gameplay issues sorted, and the few atmosphere-killing graphical flaws (transparent crew, laser-beam lighthouses, you-know-this-old-saw-by-now) ... ... if they could just fix these few things, SH4 could still be the most excellasubadocious sim ever created. __________________ "I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." - Captain John Paul Jones, 1778

05-15-07, 11:09 AM	#38
HarleyRider Watch Join Date: May 2006 Location: On planet Earth Posts: 18 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	IMO, the only sim that has a TRULY "dynamic campaign" is "Falcon 4.0" or the newer version "Falcon 4.0: Allied Force". With F4, however you perform on a mission will drastically effect the out come down the road. For instance, if you are ordered to bomb a bridge to keep the enemy from transporting supplies across it and you fail, you will pay the consequenses later in the sim because the enemy WAS able to transport those supplies across that bridge to support your enemy. Therefore it will change the balance of the war. Just my 2 cents worth. Cheers!!! Last edited by HarleyRider; 05-16-07 at 10:03 AM.

05-16-07, 12:41 AM	#39
edjcox Engineer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Shang Gri La Posts: 219 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Game interface Here's one issue for you By default the Torps are all set to long range slow speed.. Now I tend to get close and shoot high speed fairly exclusively... Because of the defalt setting I have to reset all of the load Torps to high speed clicking each indivdually using that lousy low high interface.... That's an example of interface issues... Would really be nice to have a toggle to set the default to high speed... Now if I want to chance a long range shot on a an idiot who doesn't know what Zig Zag means I can.. A few others like this could really make the game more enjoyable. Here's one more... You sight a target and swing your Deck gun onto to it... Would be nice if your range setting would be fairly close to dead on say a few hundred yards = or -.. Instead your guessing and wasting precious rounds trying to bracket.... Perhaps a window with an overhead view showing your water splashes short or long allowing you to adjust.. Again these could be options or crutches for learning players that the purists could switch off... I still think the battle damage control window is totally lacking in adequate data to manage there tasks. Damage seems never to reduce on some items until poof it's fixed... Prioritizing your crews efforts is a captains decision.. You wanna fight some more or go and hide for a while to fix up systems you may employ when you reengage.. The way it is now your hard pressed to determine what is being fixed and when it will be available... I can here you now.. that's the way it was... Well yes but part of this game is to make you feel like your efforts can change things and the outcome.. If indeed you sink even if you repair and slink away.. well ... The bright side of this game is that these and so many other issues are within reach of the modders.. Neal what I'd like to see is some commo about what UBI plans to fix in the next mod and when they plan to leave this baby beind on the street for strangers to feed clothe and rear...:rotfl: __________________ EJ Cox http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z...jcox/usaCa.gif

05-14-07, 09:08 AM	#32
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Sorry, but "dynamic" has a very specific meaning in relation to games. Yes, there is confusion because the word also has a non-technical meaning, but that is not an excuse. The game is not dynamic, not at all. In the context of talking about a campaign in a game, the actions of the player MUST change the campaign or the campaign is not dynamic. With triggers, you could argue that individual missions/patrols are dynamic in game, but not the campaign. tater

05-14-07, 09:53 AM	#34
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	If they do announce it, here's my nomination for its title....... SH-V "Silent Developers": Bug Hunt in the Black Sea

05-14-07, 06:15 PM	#36
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I think almost everyone agrees that a "dynamic campaign" in one in which player actions alter the course of the campaign. In a flight sim, if you get a mission to destroy a given target, once it is totally destroyed you shouldn't be tasked with destroying it again—at least not until a point far enough in the future that it has been rebuilt. In the case of SH4, the bare minimum, IMO, is some persistance past the end of a given patrol. If 2xYamato are sunk, it should be possible to never have any chance of seeing a Yamato BB again. That's my minimum requirement for a dynamic campaign instead of a "random campaign" which is what SH4 has. If the typical sub is sinking 1-2 ships per patrol, and you sink 100,000 tons of mostly merchants in a given area, you'd expect the enemy to react to that and steer traffic elsewhere, or use more escorts in that region. In game? Nothing. the player in no way changes the game world, not even a little.