SH4 removes some functionality from SH3

[Torpex752]

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

Did you play Aces of the Deep? I liked how the devs made the damage control screen: it was a blue print of your sub and the CE circled the damaged parts of the sub. You could click on them and get detail info, I want that back.

Yes I did, played nearly every subsim that was ever made electronically. (not braggin just answering the question) and I base my "experience" on having served in the submarine force for 20 years and having studied WWII subs for over 30 years. My comment is based on an unbiased comparison/study of the three areas together, subsim experience WWII history and personal experience in the sub community. Not Bragging, Its just been my passion since I was twelve...even joined the navy and choose subs to dive in as deep as I could. While there it was amazing to see how similar the roles of the crew in subs have remained. The technological advances and the remaining similarities. All in all SH3 has the best atmosphere, and I was so hopeful that SH4 would build straight "up" and continue to enhance and expand on all of what was already there. It sounds like SH4 has done most of that but has neglected one large area. Sure, we didnt have a 3d rendered grafics screen showing water and fire on our boats, the stuff was there!. However when you are not on a sub and cannot "feel" the heat, humidity, cold, high CO2, low O2 levels, experience the pounding headaches, smell the smells, choke on the smoke, having a visual representation of these items to "see" the mess and make decisions based off of that mess is and should be part of the experience. Modern submarine simulations continue to lack those visual (one of the senses yes?) elements and IMHO are only half done. Could they be better? Why not? If they can model crew management, why remove damage control management? Are they not truely interlaced? You cant have one without the other as far as I have ever seen. So while I am excited that SH4 looks and does the things it does have I am sad not to see the item that makes up almost 50% or a submariners life neglected (or so it seems).

Thanks for letting me reply.

Frank

[The WosMan]

Shaffer4Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum...

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstart...a/linoleum.htm

Hahaha, yeah and the best part was when it was first invented back in the 1800s it wasn't considered a cheap floor covering like that article says. You were the cats a$$ if you could put it in your house and only the rich people could afford it. Saw that on the History channel.

Never placed Aces but I like the way that sounds. A blueprint is what you should have and then as damage accumulates the graphic looks like somebody with a pencil in handwriting circles the area and writes what the damage is. As it is fixed the writing gets erased.

[elanaiba]

Due to the accelerated development cycle of this title, the damage control screen and radio stations are simplified from previous versions. The damage control center does not have a sub cutaway with little compartments, fires, and flooding animations. However, the player is given the ability to group several damage teams with experts and more efficiently prioritize the tasks.

Neal's article says simplified, not eliminated.

[Torpex752]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Neal's article says simplified, not eliminated.

True, "simplified" is the word, however damage control is not simple. I could deal with out the cutaway as long as they dont simplify what is damaged by giving the damage a % or worse yet, generalizing anything that could get damaged into a compartment group %. SH3 had it about as simple as it should ever be as it didnt really say what was wrong with something, IE: an engine, but gave a time to repair what was wrong. Simplifying the damage control teams to mirror the US navy's system of a Watch Quarter and station bill (still used today), would definitly feel simplified compared to SH3's method (or lack of).
So I get a tad bit nervous because I have seen what "simplified" damage control results in. Should it be simplified because the dev team figured that a Commanding Officer didnt need to be bothered with certain details, may want to reconsider that. The Officer Submarine qualification program of the 30's contained many of the same elements as todays in that the there was a pipeline of training and duties that every CO went through. Basically, one was to understand submarines, submarine construction, and engineering thoroughly and know many, many details. So in combat, when the CO hears that an inner torpedo tube gasket has failed, he understands the priority that needs over a leaking periscope packing, a few cracked battery cells, or blown trimp pump fuses.
Sorry if I seem overly anal I just think that while how things look does deserve attention, so does the mechanics of the submarine and her crew in order to continue giving a greater feel for the complexities of submarine warfare and how interlaced a crew becomes with their boat.

Frank

[Hartmann]

I hope that they only simplified the visual eye candy , the essential and detailed information must be there. :hmm:

i can live without a cutaway of the boat with animated effects and i will use the cuts from sh1 at least for a bit eye candy but i think that is a step back.

[Sailor Steve]

I really liked the SHI animated fires and flooding, but in fact AOD's blueprint with the damaged areas circled was much more realistic. As long as I get reports telling me what's going on I'll be satisfied.

[flintlock]

Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum

Linseed oil, pigments, pine rosin and pine flour--who'd guessed?

[Skywolf]

Hmm.. UBI rushes again?

I'd rather have the so-called "eye-candy".

If they, Ubi or the Devs, are not going to do it in the retail version (Which is what is going to happen according to the interviews and posts)....

PLEASE do an expansion that includes ALL the interiors and revamped Damage control screen!!!

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

BTW... I've bought the SH games before this. SH1 through SH3. So you'd be loosing a long time customer of the franchise.

[Sorry if I sound passionate, I love the work that the Devs have done in the past and now, but whenever I hear about a "accelerated schedule" I can't help but thinking of some CEO only looking at some rushed profit and not really caring about the game or the potential of what the Devs could truly do if given a non-rushed schedule.]

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by Skywolf

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

I'd prefer the whole sub be modeled too but c'mon, you know you'll still buy SH4. Resistance is futile.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Skywolf

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

You aren’t going to buy SH4 because all the compartments aren’t modeled? This is just silly to me. You do realize that simulations in general aren’t a hot item on the gaming market, don’t you? Even then, flight sims sell better than naval/submarine sims by a wide margin. We should be thankful that there are developers and game publishers out there that still see this small market. People not buying the game very well means we won’t see SH5, or at the very least not for a very long time.

SH4 has been in development for less than year. Ubi put a tight timetable since it uses SH3 as base to build off of, and this is the only reason why we are seeing SH4 so soon after the release of SH3. Modeling compartments takes time, then on top of that you have to code crew behavior in those compartments. Can you imagine this forms reaction if you didn’t actually see the crew reloading those torpedo tubes? Again that takes a lot of time, time which could be put else where on game play improvements (like not being stuck at playing the game at 1024x768 resolution).

Completely OT gripe: I’m super excited about the release of SH4 and can’t wait for it to get here, but I’m increasingly starting to dread it at the same time. I fear the forms are going to be nothing but complaining and disappointment from people who had high (unrealistic) expectations. Sh4 is nothing more than Sh3 in the Pacific with some graphical and game play fixes/additions that had roughly a year development cycle.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Nightmare

I fear the forms are going to be nothing but complaining and disappointment from people who had high (unrealistic) expectations. Sh4 is nothing more than Sh3 in the Pacific with some graphical and game play fixes/additions that had roughly a year development cycle.

And with good reason. That's exactly what happened with SHIII: lots of complaining. Of course there were a lot of others who said "So what? This is still the best subsim ever."

Of course there will be complaints, and a lot of them will be of the "I didn't get exactly what I wanted" variety. That's the way it goes. If the game can make me forget SHI and immerse myself in the feel of it, I won't complain at all.

Well, maybe a little...

[fire-fox]

Originally Posted by Skywolf

Hmm.. UBI rushes again?

I'd rather have the so-called "eye-candy".

If they, Ubi or the Devs, are not going to do it in the retail version (Which is what is going to happen according to the interviews and posts)....

PLEASE do an expansion that includes ALL the interiors and revamped Damage control screen!!!

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

BTW... I've bought the SH games before this. SH1 through SH3. So you'd be loosing a long time customer of the franchise.

[Sorry if I sound passionate, I love the work that the Devs have done in the past and now, but whenever I hear about a "accelerated schedule" I can't help but thinking of some CEO only looking at some rushed profit and not really caring about the game or the potential of what the Devs could truly do if given a non-rushed schedule.]

this is a COMPUTER GAME, if you wont to go and load torpedos in the tubes your self go and sine up.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Originally Posted by Skywolf

Hmm.. UBI rushes again?

I'd rather have the so-called "eye-candy".

If they, Ubi or the Devs, are not going to do it in the retail version (Which is what is going to happen according to the interviews and posts)....

PLEASE do an expansion that includes ALL the interiors and revamped Damage control screen!!!

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

BTW... I've bought the SH games before this. SH1 through SH3. So you'd be loosing a long time customer of the franchise.

[Sorry if I sound passionate, I love the work that the Devs have done in the past and now, but whenever I hear about a "accelerated schedule" I can't help but thinking of some CEO only looking at some rushed profit and not really caring about the game or the potential of what the Devs could truly do if given a non-rushed schedule.]

Och, just hud yer weesht

[flintlock]

Why are so many hard on Skywolf?

Everyone has their own opinion and though it may differ from yours, that doesn't make it any less valid. Different things hold different importance to different people for different reasons. This is subsim.com, full of sub simming enthusiasts! Spirited conversation with unique opinions makes for interesting reading.

[tommyk]

well said flintlock!

I very much like to take my time in SH3. Get out of habour... Watch the seagulls... admire the scene... plan the course... spend time at captains bunk and listening to songs of Rina Ketty... all not realy vital action parts of modern games but I like the way SH3 gameplay flows until the prey is sighted and the hunt finally begins... love it!

I hope SH4 brings more of that SH3 immersion and does not have "killed 80 planes in 5 minutes, yeah" focus in gameplay...