[REL] R.S.D. - Reworked Submarine Damage

[plj]

Originally Posted by gap

Read below



On a side note: have you guys read this?



For each beta tester we need the following chart to be filled in:

                no R.S.D.    R.S.D. v1    R.S.D. v2    R.S.D.  v3    R.S.D. v4    R.S.D. v5    R.S.D. v5.2    R.S.D. v5.3    
Coastal Waters

Happy Times

Mare Nostrum

Western Approaches

Battle of the Mediterranean

Operation Drumbeat

Arctic Convoys

Distant Waters

The Black Pit

Monsun Gruppe

Turning Point

The Final Years

I realize that they are (8 x 12 =) 96 campaign loadings in total, so take your time on it! Use your respective mod lists for the suggested tests, with no other change than the enabling (at the end of the JSGME list) of the different R.S.D. versions. Personally I would start with our "blank" (your full mod lists with no R.S.D. enabled), followed by R.S.D. v4 testing (the version that for many of you seem to procede the "rupture point") and v5 testing

In the meanwhile I am working on an EUF/NewUIs/IRAI/FxU/OHII/RSD compatibility patch which Vecko should use for migrating his RSD settings on it

I'm not about to do it this inefficient if you dont mind. (unless you can convince me I absolutely have to in order to solve the issue) Since 4 seems to be where it worked, 4 is where I'll start .. if I can load all those campaigns on 4, I will not bother with previous versions, as those have just become irrelevant then.

In case I get CTD's on 4, I'll step back a version and repeat.

If people report their modlist, including the version of RSD where everything works, creating a difference snapshot between the modlists and the RSD versions reported should reveal the issue and save us from the likely never to be performed task of loading 96 games @ 5 to 8 minutes per game on my system ... (not including sh5 restart due to CTD)

[gap]

Originally Posted by plj

I'm not about to do it this inefficient if you dont mind. (unless you can convince me I absolutely have to in order to solve the issue) Since 4 seems to be where it worked, 4 is where I'll start ..

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. This is exactly what I am suggesting

Originally Posted by plj

if I can load all those campaigns on 4, I will not bother with previous versions, as those have just become irrelevant then.

Before v. 4 testing, a "blank" test (no R.S.D. enabled) is nonetheless essential for each campaign. Just imagine that on your system a campaign can't be loaded anyway, no matter if RSD is enabled or not. Keeping testing different RSD versions on it, would be just a waste of time

[plj]

Gotcha .. but they you only get to 96 starts in the worst case scenario

Testing atm without RSD:

Top row in campaign select; CTD on Monsun Gruppe

So the idea that RSD just reveals already present errors starts to gain traction imho. I'll test further later .. and post a filled in matrix for silentotto without RSD.

[vdr1981]

Until i collect previous versions, please try problematic campaigns with this Plj... http://www.mediafire.com/download/ap...RSD+test+2.rar

[plj]

I just demonstrated a problem with cmapaigns in combination with silentotto, regardless of RSD being installed or not .. I can load Battle for the Med. fine tho, without RSD. I'll try both problem campaigns with this mod and report on that .. other then that I'm first gonna get that baseline in

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by plj

I just demonstrated a problem with cmapaigns in combination with silentotto, regardless of RSD being installed or not ..

Now this complicates situation drastically...

[plj]

Not really. It means it's in a file(s) that RSD is based on. And if we can confirm v4 working for Battle of the Med. we know it's file(s) that's also altered between 4 and 5.x That will help narrow it down.

Merge Mania will have to happen I think too many mods touching the same stuff floating around atm.

[vdr1981]

Yes, but why I (and probably other palyers ) don't have CTD's with my modlist? That is the mistery... Do you have some theory Gap?

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Compatibility:
This mod uses files from and it's fully compatible with folowing mods (in this particular order) :
----------------------
- Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_byTheBeast
- Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1
- #Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1_HotFix
- Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_v1_4_Patch_1 (available by date) V9 by sober
----------------------
- SH5 Longer Repairs v.1
----------------------
- FX_Update_0_0_22_ByTheDarkWraith
----------------------
- NewUIs_TDC_7_4_2_TheDarkWraith (works fine with 7.5.0. also)
----------------------
- IRAI_0_0_39
----------------------
- OPEN HORIZONS II_full v2.2
----------------------
I will do my best to maintain compatibility with newer versions of this mods.

Just to be sure .. Do you overwriting anything beyond above mods in your modlist?

I wrote first sentence by the assumption that Sobers/Fifi mod list is completely correct and that all mods are compatible. Now i'm starting to asking my self , is this really true...

[vdr1981]

v1 and v2 are missing, i deleted them...Sry But v1-v4 are basically the same...
Yet, i'm still not sure will this extensive testing tell us anythig...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7y...1m/Desktop.rar

[gap]

Originally Posted by plj

Gotcha .. but they you only get to 96 starts in the worst case scenario

In theory... I hope that half of them, or lesser, will be enough

Originally Posted by plj

Testing atm without RSD:

Top row in campaign select; CTD on Monsun Gruppe

= first C41 campaign issue. Is Turning Point loading smoothly?

Originally Posted by plj

So the idea that RSD just reveals already present errors starts to gain traction imho.

yes, besides corrupted game files in yours and Mike's installations, and/or excessive pc resource request by some campaigns, I can't think of any other reasonable explaination for your issues: unsolved mod conflicts that had been overlooked in the past. Why overlooked? I have my personal theory:

for a start, the past generation cared much lesser than they do now about other's mod. SH5 modding was still at a pioneering stage, and given the tension and the competition prevailing among them (it was inherited by SHII and IV's modding community) the were reluctant to make their mods compatiblle with each other. Result? a myriad of mods, designed over stock files, and small or no information on which settings they affected. Many of these mods have disappeared now, but some "must have" mods of the present day are still based on them.

On the other hand, the continuous modding effort, has prevented players and testers from making much progress in campaign. There is still much talk on hydrophones (which are available from the beginning), but almost no one know anything about later radars and RWR's, someone has tested TDW's telescopic snorkel (which with a feew tweaks can be made available anytime in campaign), but the more historically correct hinged snorkel added to the game by TheBeast is hardly documented on the forum, because sober's "available by date" patch (no blame to him, indeed) delayed its issue in campaign. A direct consequence of this state is that many mod soup-related bugs which don't show up early in campaign, are still scarcely known.

Originally Posted by plj

I'll test further later .. and post a filled in matrix for silentotto without RSD.

If you prefer, you can fill your data in the following on-line document:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0E&usp=sharing

I have added all the OH's campaigns with their dates.

Color code:
blue: VIIa issue
green: VIIb issue
orange: VIIc issue
raed: VIIc41 issue

below each campaign there several rows of empty cells (one row for each tester), for recording the results of your tests

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Until i collect previous versions, please try problematic campaigns with this Plj... http://www.mediafire.com/download/ap...RSD+test+2.rar

ops... I didn't add cells for your RSD test versions in my document, Vecko. But luckily anyone can update it with new data and new rows, if required

Originally Posted by plj

Merge Mania will have to happen I think too many mods touching the same stuff floating around atm.

I agree. Letting JSGME to resolve mod conflicts is not the right way to do it, in many cases

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Yes, but why I (and probably other palyers ) don't have CTD's with my modlist? That is the mistery... Do you have some theory Gap?

have you tried reproducing exactly plj's or Mike's mod lists on your computer, Vecko? Honestly I didn't look at the mods they have enabled one by one, but at first glance they look as good as yours, as they all are based on sobers mega mod, I think. I wouldn't be surprised if their mod lists run smoothlessy on your computer. I am not a computer expert, but I think that there is a number of small mistakes that SH5 can still handle. Exceed that number (which may vary from pc to pc depednding on a number of factors) and the game will crash. I hope I am not saying an heresy though.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Just to be sure .. Do you overwriting anything beyond above mods in your modlist?

I wrote first sentence by the assumption that Sobers/Fifi mod list is completely correct and that all mod are compatible. Now i'm starting to asking my self , is this really true...

Yes, those mod lists are more correct than others, an they can still be used as refrence, but imho this doesn't imply that they are absolutely error-free or that they are not further perfectible. See my relevant considerations above.

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

..I am not a computer expert, but I think that there is a number of small mistakes that SH5 can still handle. Exceed that number (which may vary from pc to pc depednding on a number of factors) and the game will crash. I hope I am not saying an heresy though.

Totally agree.. that's exactly the same as I think about all this CTDs..

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Yet, i'm still not sure will this extensive testing tell us anythig...

Yes, trust me, if we follow a method, and provided that we are not talking about random crashes, this testing will tell us whether RSD has anything to do with them, and where to look for their possible reason.

Not following a method means adding randomness to randomness = confusion, deception and end of a brilliant project with no good reason

P.S: making good progress with my mod comparison work. So far the files with the most differences among EUF and New UI's are NSS_Uboat7c.sns and NSS_Uboat7c41.sns.

For some reason TheBeast equipped those boats with regular periscopes until july, 01 '41; from july 2 on, they are fitted with the periscopes with twisted cable, which NewUI's features from the beginning. Another probably more relevant difference, is the addition of a snorkel mounted RWR from July 42, only featured in EUF's files.

The new entries are overwritten by New UI's. So far RSD featured New UI's versions of the above files. for each file, I will merge New UI's and EUF's settings, and I will be then bring RSD's tweaks on the resulting files

Originally Posted by volodya61

Totally agree.. that's exactly the same as I think about all this CTDs..

We are two heretics then

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

P.S: making good progress with my mod comparison work. So far the files with the most differences among EUF and New UI's are NSS_Uboat7c.sns and NSS_Uboat7c41.sns.

It's my EUF-NewUIs fix - http://www.mediafire.com/?8f242p101n116os
Maybe it will be interesting to you..

Originally Posted by gap

We are two heretics then

I don't think so.. I faced with this problem long ago, when I first time uploaded my mod-pack on sukhoi.ru.. when a critical mass of errors reaches a certain limit, the game crashes from any installed new mod.. or almost any..

PS: I'm going to re-install OS right now (I finished all editing) and tomorrow I'll do a full audit/re-revision of all my mods..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

It's my EUF-NewUIs fix - http://www.mediafire.com/?8f242p101n116os
Maybe it will be interesting to you..

This is exactly what I was talking about

I see that you have not retained all the [sensor #] definitions featured in EUF's sns files. I still don't know how those files are applied to playable units (for AI units it is quite obvious), but if TheBeast updated them there must be a reson. Do you have any reason for not having included all of his tweaks in your compatibility patch? Maybe you didn't want to alter progressive sensors' numbering, for snorkel enabling to still be possible through TDW's option viewer/editor rather than manually?

Originally Posted by volodya61

I don't think so.. I faced with this problem long ago, when I first time uploaded my mod-pack on sukhoi.ru.. when a critical mass of errors reaches a certain limit, the game crashes from any installed new mod.. or almost any..

I might have a rational explanation for this:

Originally Posted by volodya61

PS: I'm going to re-install OS right now (I finished all editing) and tomorrow I'll do a full audit/re-revision of all my mods..