[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Ahoy, propbeanie...
Am on patrol 3, same boat, Sargo class, sailed out from Surabaya, right before the shake up with sub command (SowWestPac, falling under ComSubsSowWesPac iirc that message, exactly.. ) right after that, got message stating that Surabaya had been abandoned. Before sailing, got orders to go to area E3 & await further orders.

On arrival in the area (close enough to trigger a flash radio traffic message, that is...) got orders to sink enemy targets & on having full autonomy in order to accomplish said task.

Ok, now that this info is out of the way & disclosed... My query is this...

With said orders, do I have to stay in that general area, to sink a ship (preferably big enough to trigger the completion bell on it, that is... ) & complete that objective.? Or, can you motivate to any other areas to complete said task objective..?

Inquiring minds, wanna know.

jumping in here, if you see a Pennant and it goes gray after the flash radio traffic, then you can go anywhere you want to sink shipping. in reality, there are two objectives. the first is for reaching the patrol zone and the second is for sinking shipping. the total points for the two is usually in the 400 points range.

[propbeanie]

As for the other post there MM, which was apparently posted as I edited the previous of mine: The "autonomy" does indeed give you Carte Blanche to go where ever you please. It is, after all, a "Sink" mission, and I would at least get to a 100 fathom location, unless you just relish the challenge. Even as I have grown older and used to playing in the those same "shallows", for patrols, I have always found a hidie-hole in the area, and I submerge in the deeper area, purposefully NOT hunting, coming up at night for air and battery, and then repeat as necessary until the patrol completes. Then I go off to a deeper location and do some sinking (hopefully). With the "Sink" missions, if given in the shallows, I will exercise my "autonomy" or "discretion", and go find me "safer" digs to hunt in.

As for the planes, yes it is odd that they do that. We might attempt to address that later. Part of the problem is the damage model, but mostly it is the zones.cfg displaying what I consider an inappropriate "damage". Some smoke would be OK, but if the plane is going to "FLAME ON!!!", it needs to either crash shortly thereafter, or the flames go out. TDW's mod was an attempt that assets (ships) would take damage from said fires. There is a bit of that in FotRSU, but I do not think the airplanes have it. I have never attempted to see what actually "sinks" a plane, so I am not certain that TDW's approach would work on them. We can certainly try though... As for the ships, there are quite a few more people on them, and generally, better damage control, most likely able to put out some fire, shore up some bulkheads, etc.

I had one where I had hit a ship in the middle, taking out its engines, slowly taking on a list and catching fire, then gradually stopping. But escorts kept me down for a while. I eventually maneuvered into a safer area, came up and took a peek. There was the merchant, low in the water, down a pinch by the bow, listing to starboard, still on fire, lots of smoke, but still hadn't gone down after an hour plus. So I decided to QUIETLY maneuver into position to finish it off, which took about 30 minutes to get to 2400 yards. One torp ready to go, PD again, up scope, aim, shoot, over a 2 minute run, and at the one minute mark, torpedo still inbound, up goes a red flare and a "She's taking on water and going down!" message... just as the torpedo reaches the ship, there it went below... the torpedo explosion, of course, drew the escorts back to my area, and it took a LONG time to get away... There are times, where "realistic" sinking times do happen. I have also read quite a few stories of ships sinking in less than 2 minutes also...

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

jumping in here, if you see a Pennant and it goes gray after the flash radio traffic, then you can go anywhere you want to sink shipping. in reality, there are two objectives. the first is for reaching the patrol zone and the second is for sinking shipping. the total points for the two is usually in the 400 points range.

Ahoy, KaleunMarco...


Much obliged, on the info... was thinking such might be the case... but, felt it best to garner a definitive answer on it... Thanks.

Now that I know I am free & clear to head for other territory to hunt... am going to beat feet for deeper hunting grounds... dancing about in the shallows, is murder on the nerves...

M. M.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

As for the other post there MM, which was apparently posted as I edited the previous of mine: The "autonomy" does indeed give you Carte Blanche to go where ever you please. It is, after all, a "Sink" mission, and I would at least get to a 100 fathom location, unless you just relish the challenge. Even as I have grown older and used to playing in the those same "shallows", for patrols, I have always found a hidie-hole in the area, and I submerge in the deeper area, purposefully NOT hunting, coming up at night for air and battery, and then repeat as necessary until the patrol completes. Then I go off to a deeper location and do some sinking (hopefully). With the "Sink" missions, if given in the shallows, I will exercise my "autonomy" or "discretion", and go find me "safer" digs to hunt in.

As for the planes, yes it is odd that they do that. We might attempt to address that later. Part of the problem is the damage model, but mostly it is the zones.cfg displaying what I consider an inappropriate "damage". Some smoke would be OK, but if the plane is going to "FLAME ON!!!", it needs to either crash shortly thereafter, or the flames go out. TDW's mod was an attempt that assets (ships) would take damage from said fires. There is a bit of that in FotRSU, but I do not think the airplanes have it. I have never attempted to see what actually "sinks" a plane, so I am not certain that TDW's approach would work on them. We can certainly try though... As for the ships, there are quite a few more people on them, and generally, better damage control, most likely able to put out some fire, shore up some bulkheads, etc.

I had one where I had hit a ship in the middle, taking out its engines, slowly taking on a list and catching fire, then gradually stopping. But escorts kept me down for a while. I eventually maneuvered into a safer area, came up and took a peek. There was the merchant, low in the water, down a pinch by the bow, listing to starboard, still on fire, lots of smoke, but still hadn't gone down after an hour plus. So I decided to QUIETLY maneuver into position to finish it off, which took about 30 minutes to get to 2400 yards. One torp ready to go, PD again, up scope, aim, shoot, over a 2 minute run, and at the one minute mark, torpedo still inbound, up goes a red flare and a "She's taking on water and going down!" message... just as the torpedo reaches the ship, there it went below... the torpedo explosion, of course, drew the escorts back to my area, and it took a LONG time to get away... There are times, where "realistic" sinking times do happen. I have also read quite a few stories of ships sinking in less than 2 minutes also...

Ahoy, propbeanie...

Much obliged, to your confirming what I was thinking... *see pre post back in repose to KM.*

Yeah, that area is kind of devoid of any serious areas to do so... I did think of playing trap door spider & see if some. unsuspecting vict... erhm, sink volunteer, wouldn't just haplessly wander by to be the bulls eye target...

But... knowing that would probably take longer than it was worth. Just wasn't 100% sure of being able to go further afield for targets... so, hence My inquiry.

Glad to know that it is affixed so as to ships not dancing away unscathed due to being lit up like a Viking funeral pyre...

Yeah, I do know that ships would have a better chance at damage control... & that's acceptable... BUT when it comes to a plane... uhh uhh.. there is no damage control party & that's a grave error that Ubi should be keel hauled for even being allowed to be there..

Not pushing that y'all have to address that issue with planes & their damage models outright right away... BUT.... please do look into it, if y'all would...
as I said... it is very frustrating, duking it out with 1 of them pesky mosquito's... & to watch them fly off, laughing at you the entire time as they fly off... blazing away....

NOT that I go out of My way to purposely duke it out with them, mind ya... was just in that instance, being in an area where going to either peri depth, much less even attempting to 'crash dive', was NOT an option... sucks.. to not be able to drop 1 of them there IJN flyboys like a pesky fly or mosquito... all the while knowing you can get damaged due to that... snafu on Ubi's part with them...

Any way... thanks for the reply bac to My inquiry...

Now, back to finding better hunting grounds that I can hide if I need to...

M. M.

[propbeanie]

Bringing this forward a page for these two fellows to see:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

@ Comder and Mad Mardigan, as well as all others interested:

I think I found the issue... After giving up on the testing yesterday evening, attempting to find the issue with Objectives not completing, and failing, I went back to testing for a Preview Release of the next version. Yesterday evening and night, I never had a fail the whole time, quitting after testing a mid-war Salmon. This morning, I continued with the Salmon testing, no problems, and moved to the Sargo. Two tries and "boom!" - CTD. Hmmm... Checked the mission - all OK. Check the sub - all OK. Check the conn - all OK. Check the guns etc. - all OK... Re-start the game, do the same Start, boat, date, etc., and no problem

Continued testing. No further issue with the Sargo, so I went into the Narwhal. Third start test and "Boom!" - CTD... what thuh?... same tests as for the Sargo, and all looks fine. Re-start the game, same Start and all ran fine...

So I dug further into the files, double & triple checking them all... nothing. So I started at the beginning with the Narwhal again, doing a Jan 42 start, then a July 42, Jan 43, Oct 43 and all are fine... then a Jan 44 start and "Boom!" - CTD!!! Then it dawns on me... I have not been re-starting the game between these starts. If I do re-starts, I never have a bit of trouble. This is similar to if you change game "modes". You should not go from Single Mission to War Patrol, or Museum to Career, etc., so it stands to reason that doing several "Starts" in a row would be similar. I was overloading the game's memory. The Narwhal seems to be a bit of a memory hog, and it really pushes things to the limit...

So I went back into the game, did four starts without exiting, then I did my big "Test" mission, and presto! It did not complete the 2nd mission Objective. So I did a re-start, and low and behold, no problem. If I exit the game after every Save, I have no problem. So think back on your game play, and see if you can remember how often you did a re-start... ??

As to the airplanes MM, we haven't looked at them due to the fact that a sub skipper should NOT be duking it out with them, no matter the circumstances. Truth be known, the AI AA gunners are much better at shooting down airplanes than they should be (the same with regular gunners), so the trade-off is only fair. If we do "fix" the airplanes somehow, we would also make the gunners much worse at their jobs - but that's more difficult except by angle error... lol

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

@ Comder and Mad Mardigan, as well as all others interested:

I think I found the issue... After giving up on the testing yesterday evening, attempting to find the issue with Objectives not completing, and failing, I went back to testing for a Preview Release of the next version. Yesterday evening and night, I never had a fail the whole time, quitting after testing a mid-war Salmon. This morning, I continued with the Salmon testing, no problems, and moved to the Sargo. Two tries and "boom!" - CTD. Hmmm... Checked the mission - all OK. Check the sub - all OK. Check the conn - all OK. Check the guns etc. - all OK... Re-start the game, do the same Start, boat, date, etc., and no problem

Continued testing. No further issue with the Sargo, so I went into the Narwhal. Third start test and "Boom!" - CTD... what thuh?... same tests as for the Sargo, and all looks fine. Re-start the game, same Start and all ran fine...

So I dug further into the files, double & triple checking them all... nothing. So I started at the beginning with the Narwhal again, doing a Jan 42 start, then a July 42, Jan 43, Oct 43 and all are fine... then a Jan 44 start and "Boom!" - CTD!!! Then it dawns on me... I have not been re-starting the game between these starts. If I do re-starts, I never have a bit of trouble. This is similar to if you change game "modes". You should not go from Single Mission to War Patrol, or Museum to Career, etc., so it stands to reason that doing several "Starts" in a row would be similar. I was overloading the game's memory. The Narwhal seems to be a bit of a memory hog, and it really pushes things to the limit...

So I went back into the game, did four starts without exiting, then I did my big "Test" mission, and presto! It did not complete the 2nd mission Objective. So I did a re-start, and low and behold, no problem. If I exit the game after every Save, I have no problem. So think back on your game play, and see if you can remember how often you did a re-start... ??

With the non completion gong for the 'Sibutu passage patrol 6 days'...

After doing the save, just prior to entering that area... I waited a few minutes before exiting the game... as I always do.

I booted up My computer, to re load & entered the patrol zone area of Sibutu... so that should not have been an issue that I know of.. as I did not go into the museum or do a single mission... heck, I don't even mess with those areas at all, to be frank about it... instead, focusing on running careers only.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Bringing this forward a page for these two fellows to see:

As to the airplanes MM, we haven't looked at them due to the fact that a sub skipper should NOT be duking it out with them, no matter the circumstances. Truth be known, the AI AA gunners are much better at shooting down airplanes than they should be (the same with regular gunners), so the trade-off is only fair. If we do "fix" the airplanes somehow, we would also make the gunners much worse at their jobs - but that's more difficult except by angle error... lol

Well, be that as it may... I agree for the most part... but, when you're between a rock & a hard place... is nice to be able to defend if absolutely necessary... & I do seem to recall seeing where some skippers did duke it out with attacking aircraft... iirc. What the exact circumstances were for them to do so, am not sure of... will see if I can do some digging for info on that... when I can remember to do so...

I did note that the 91 rated guy, only let off a short burst at the 1st plane.. then just stopped & lollygagged about watching the plane (on fire & ready to host a weenie roast by then... ) & refused to re engage the attacking aircraft... I jerked them off the gun & sent in the next highest rated guy I had, a 61.. iirc (& these guys have the crossed gun emblems attached to them, by the way... , which leaves Me dumb founded as to why they are doing that... ) & He too, as with the 91 rater.. let off a single burst & stopped completely firing at the attacking plane... (which by that time, after the 2nd gunner stopped firing & refused to fire).. apparently tripped off some trigger that finally sent it packing it in, & nosediving into the sea...

With plane # 2... neither of them, not once... attempted to fire the flak gun... at all...

As they say, curiouser & curiouser...

Any way... that is My report on that subject... now back to Sid, at the news desk for channel 9, this is M. M., signing off...

M. M.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Ahoy, KaleunMarco...


Much obliged, on the info... was thinking such might be the case... but, felt it best to garner a definitive answer on it... Thanks.

Now that I know I am free & clear to head for other territory to hunt... am going to beat feet for deeper hunting grounds... dancing about in the shallows, is murder on the nerves...

M. M.

you will be in good company with that decision.

[KaleunMarco]

i remember seeing a spreadsheet or possibly a PDF that listed each of the Japanese ships and their physical details as well as the number of points accrued for sinking.

i cannot find that document.

was there one created for FOTRSU? ...or was it a different mod-set and i am just confused?

[KaleunMarco]

the drop zone circle is nowhere near the actual drop off zone.

[Comder]

Good Evening Gentlemen,
Propbeanie,


I have a habit to save near the next mission after requesting it. Then I return to the game for a minute or two. I then will quit the game. I will have shut off the computer and return the next evening to play the mission. Now, some times I will forget how many saved games I have. during this patrol, I still had my enter and exit saves and about 5 to 6 game save at that time. I normally only keep 3 or 4 at any given time. I do not know if this matters, but I have noticed it will change the load times depending on how many save there are. Hope this is what you where looking for. Sorry it takes a bit to reply. My computer at the shop will not load the FOTRS forum. just displays a white screen. So I have to wait till I return home.


To M.M. on the planes, I have had them go away on fire, then turn around still on fire and take another pass at me. They just refuse to die at times. LOL


Thanks



Comder

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Comder

Good Evening Gentlemen,
Propbeanie,


I have a habit to save near the next mission after requesting it. Then I return to the game for a minute or two. I then will quit the game. I will have shut off the computer and return the next evening to play the mission. Now, some times I will forget how many saved games I have. during this patrol, I still had my enter and exit saves and about 5 to 6 game save at that time. I normally only keep 3 or 4 at any given time. I do not know if this matters, but I have noticed it will change the load times depending on how many save there are.
Comder

this sounds more like a Windows memory issue than an SH4 issue.
Microsoft Windows handles re-use of memory very poorly.
think of memory like your countertop in your kitchen.
you make a meal and then clean up and everything is ready to make the next meal.
Microsoft is not that neat-and-orderly. if windows was cleaning up after that meal, the dirty dishes, etc would be cleared away however the countertop would not be one, unused space but a few (or many) smaller spaces for you to use for the next meal. the technical term is memory fragmentation.
applications like SH4 need large, unfragmented chunks of memory. when we (you) launch and exit SH4 several times, Microsoft does not properly clean up after itself and there are less, large chunks of memory to use the next time you launch SH4. eventually, SH4 will CTD for no apparent reason.
a reboot will reset things.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i remember seeing a spreadsheet or possibly a PDF that listed each of the Japanese ships and their physical details as well as the number of points accrued for sinking.

i cannot find that document.

was there one created for FOTRSU? ...or was it a different mod-set and i am just confused?

We had one back a while ago that had the ship name, class, tonnage and renown, but it would most likely not be valid any more. We also had a lengths sheet that is no longer valid, but someone else came along and took all of DanielCoffey's figures and made a new one, which is in the downloads section here on SubSim... but the name...

HAH! The Scotsman from Minnesota!
Ship Length Table
oona et bee a fine wun tooo, lad! (purse your lips and really dig in on the accent) - it'll be missing a few ships, but not many...

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

the drop zone circle is nowhere near the actual drop off zone.

The Insert Spy Philippines 06, along with a few others have been edited for the next release. Thankfully, the "Star" or "Binoculars" or whatever the icon for the Objective marker is, always follows the active MapZone.

As for the differences between computers, the different versions of Windows and the Silent Hunter 4 game - which is a DirectX v9.0c game remember - we are assured of several things: 1. Saves will corrupt from you holding your mouth the wrong way 2. The game will crash 3. The game ignores dates unless you want it to (think Balao and Tench and mission assignments) 4. The game does strange things at times

Now, for MM & Comder, I have this: I have not had a fail in Windows 7 or XP (yes, it can run FotRSU under the right circumstances) while playing the game. All of the fails have been on the newer Windows 10 box with the Core i7 and 2x nVidia cards... lots of RAM, lots of drive space... but the Core2 Q has not (knock on wood) failed in these tests... On the newer Win10 machine, the fails only happen after multiple Starts and / or Saves and Reloads, without having closed the game, nor re-booted, which brings to mind Front Runner and Base Time 2018...

I think I'll do some more testing before doing the Preview release, and try some CareerStart shifts... those dates do matter.

[Ihatethis]

I need more information about Mod Pack.
Out of box FotRSU has 12 mods in AddInModzPak_1.46
But "FotRSU146_AddInz_v2" version has 21. Why? Is this outdated version? Do AI mods work or they're already part of FotRSU? If they work I want to know how.
For example, I attacked patrol of two Japanese submarines during night. One was done by torpedo other one by deck gun. When I start shooting from deck gun, second submarine didn't react at all. No dive or anything. This is pretty immersion breaking. Can it be improved with AI mods from FotRSU146_AddInz_v2? Or enemy submarines can't dive?

[Torpedo]

Hi propbeanie!
after many OK missions it happened to me again the "12 highnoon" at the gauges. It was December 22, 1942 with Gato 212 in the Honshu area. I didn't realize there was a Japanese submarine because it was out of range of the hydrophone and radar. With route NE finally the radar signals me the presence of what is a Japanese submarine. From that moment all the saving are with the gauges at 90 °.
Is it not possible to eliminate the presence of Japanese submarines in the MOD which only create problems and are useless?
Personally I would not miss it! Or do you think you are close to the solution?

Torpedo

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Ihatethis

I need more information about Mod Pack.
Out of box FotRSU has 12 mods in AddInModzPak_1.46
But "FotRSU146_AddInz_v2" version has 21. Why? Is this outdated version? Do AI mods work or they're already part of FotRSU? If they work I want to know how.
For example, I attacked patrol of two Japanese submarines during night. One was done by torpedo other one by deck gun. When I start shooting from deck gun, second submarine didn't react at all. No dive or anything. This is pretty immersion breaking. Can it be improved with AI mods from FotRSU146_AddInz_v2? Or enemy submarines can't dive?

When we released v1.46, we had only tested the 12 mods we included. Several weeks after, we had tested more, and added a couple of others to the pak, hence the "_v2" for the pak, so the separate "pak" is the newer collection. The twelve originally with the mod are repeated in the v2 pak. There is a ReadMe in the root folder of the pack, and each mod has at least a jsgme text file included, and most of them have a ReadMe file as well. The "jsgme" text files in the Documentation folders will display the text once you move the mod into the MODS folder, and hover your mouse over the name in the JSGME window. They are text files though, and can be opened in any text editor. The "AI" add-in mods improve (slightly) an escorts response to the player's submarine, and has no bearing on the AI subs you would encounter. The AI subs are actually configured as surface vessels, due to game restrictions, and they cannot submerge. It would be nice to have an aggressive submarine that could surface and submerge as appropriate, but the game does not allow that. Only for the player's submarine. We have re-worked the AI subs once again for the mod, and hopefully have eliminated a "failure to perform" on the one - which I cannot remember, but the one submarine had a bum sim file and the guns did not shoot...

Originally Posted by Torpedo

Hi propbeanie!
after many OK missions it happened to me again the "12 highnoon" at the gauges. It was December 22, 1942 with Gato 212 in the Honshu area. I didn't realize there was a Japanese submarine because it was out of range of the hydrophone and radar. With route NE finally the radar signals me the presence of what is a Japanese submarine. From that moment all the saving are with the gauges at 90 °.
Is it not possible to eliminate the presence of Japanese submarines in the MOD which only create problems and are useless?
Personally I would not miss it! Or do you think you are close to the solution?

Torpedo

Yes, we think we have solved the issue, but of course, will not be certain until we get a "Preview" release out for all to test, if they feel adventurous. The player's submarines, as well as the AI submarines have all been re-worked. The players' subs should now have proper conns and "repaired" skins, which we'll leave to Canonicus, flaminus and vickers03 to mod to their hearts content for added content and options. The AI subs have all been re-assigned node IDs as necessary, and / or had their "details" re-worked. The issue encountered was discovered to be parts hidden inside certain of the AI subs from when they were used as player subs for keltos_01's mods, so we hope beyond hope that this will finally resolve the gauges issue. I have had to go out of town, but hope to be back this evening and continue final testing of what we've done, and hopefully get a "Preview" release out by tomorrow sometime. Then we'll know how well we've done with it...