Next President of the United States

[Tchocky]

Yar.

A tad wary of discussing McCain's age. The tendency to overreact is quite string whden there's an -ism just waiting to be mentioned.
Ageism is unacceptable. Refusing to recognise that McCain's age is relevant is also unacceptable. Especially for a man who has been through what he has.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yar.

A tad wary of discussing McCain's age. The tendency to overreact is quite string whden there's an -ism just waiting to be mentioned.
Ageism is unacceptable. Refusing to recognise that McCain's age is relevant is also unacceptable. Especially for a man who has been through what he has.

Actually the Democrats age bigotry is probably hurting them more than the media will tell you. After all the AARP (American Association of Retired Persons) is one of the largest and most powerful special interest group in the country and they've never taken kindly to such things.

Remember old people vote a lot more regularly than young people...

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, it has been brushed under the carpet. Defining? How? Here is a guy who sits for 20 years in front of Rev Wright but knows nothing of his sermons. Stop sniffing glue. Obama outright lied.

You see it as black and white only.

No need, if this was really an issue for McCain, it would have been looked at much deeper long ago. For 26 years, McCains record is not that bad.

Answer: Birds of a feather flock together. Do you think Rev Wright had not influence on Obama either? The man officiated his wedding. Take the blinders off.

Final note:

Half of his debate was not providing how he plans on correcting the problem. The conversation we were conducting concerned taking care of the housing crisis which is just one part of the whole crisis. Again, I have not heard anything from Obama other than rhetoric. There is more to the crisis other than the subprime mess. The subprime mess spurned the crisis, surely. Once started, other issues introduced themselves. Really, Tchocky, what has Obama said about the immediate correction of foreclosing homes? I have heard McCains possible plan. Obama? Oh, yes, another speech fear mongering another 4 years of Bush.

Personally Tchocky, I think both candidates will have one crappy time getting this corrected. Neither will come out smelling like roses. Personally, I do not know why any one of them wants the job. In my heart of hears I think Obama is very determined and bright. However, I have to look at experience also. Each has their own reasons for candidate selection.

[AVGWarhawk]

In all reality gents..............the people and the media will turn on either one that get into the White House. After 4 years, they will be considered no better than Bush. So who cares.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

In all reality gents..............the people and the media will turn on either one that get into the White House. After 4 years, they will be considered no better than Bush. So who cares.

You really think it'll take 4 years?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

You really think it'll take 4 years?

The day after Obama is sworn in on the Koran, ur, Bible, ur, Wall Street Journal, ur....takes the oath of office under the Constitution of the, ur, Article of Confederation, ur, ....says I do in sickness and health....will all the world and media turn like pit bulls on a kitten smuthered in BBQ sause.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It was one of the major news stories of the primary campaign, probably the second most covered after his defeat of Clinton. It got endless airtime nationally. Obama made a major speech about it. That is not being brushed under the carpet.

You see it as black and white only.

Yes, because black and white are both races. Discriminating on the basis of race is racism.
Old people are not a separate race.
Listen to August.

No need, if this was really an issue for McCain, it would have been looked at much deeper long ago.

Why do you trust so much? Why do you care so little about McCain's past and so much about Obama's?
In your last post you complain about the media, yet here you're saying that if there was anything seriously awry, you'd know about it by now?

Familiarise yourself with the Keating Five.
G Gordon Liddy - Planned to kill journalists, advised listeners to kill ATF agents, Watergate, planned to firebomb the Brookings Institute in DC.

Originally Posted by John McCain, to Liddy

"I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family... It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.

Rod Parsley - Believes America was founded in order to destroy Islam

Originally Posted by McCain on Parsley

one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide.

Answer: Birds of a feather flock together. Do you think Rev Wright had not influence on Obama either? The man officiated his wedding. Take the blinders off.

Birds of a feather. Do you consider Obama's limited interactions with Ayers to be flocking?
I suppose you'll include the Mayor and Governor of Chicago in this as well, considering that they have had much more contact with Ayers than Obama? Are they "birds of a feather" as well?
I didn't even mention Rev Wright in this question.
Maybe Obama has picked up something from a former Marine who was part of Lyndon Johnson's medical team. The same way he could have picked something up from a terrorist now active in Chicago school reform. I'm not defending Wright, I think he's a publicity-mad guy, but you have to realise there are many sides to every person.

Yes or no - Do you believe that through their limited interactions, Ayers has instructed Obama in the methods that he himself has rejected?

Again, I have not heard anything from Obama other than rhetoric.

Have you sat around and waited for TV to tell you? Because that doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to go out there and actually inform yourself about your own country.

There is more to the crisis other than the subprime mess. The subprime mess spurned the crisis, surely. Once started, other issues introduced themselves.

Of course, there are a lot of things going on. but the genesis of most of these problems was the incorrect perception of ever-increasing house prices, the easy credit resulting from this perception, and the corresponding bad loans.

Really, Tchocky, what has Obama said about the immediate correction of foreclosing homes?

Argued for greater taxpayer protection in the Paulson plan
Will introduce a mortgage tax credit
Will introduce a standardised measure for the cost of loans
New criminal penalties for mortgage fraud in the subprime industry.
This took me about 7 seconds to discover.

Neither man will take office until January - they can do nothing about the immediate correction of foreclosing homes.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

After 4 years, they will be considered no better than Bush. So who cares.

Have you ever entertained the thought that the next President could be worse than the current one?

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes...another major speech about it. Seems to be Obama method of operation. Have a speech and all is peachy. Tchocky, Palin has gotten more of a body cavity search than Obama every has. Rev Wright has been silenced. If everyone is so splendid with it, why is not Wright never heard from again? Why did Obama and Wright leave in different directions? Does Obama still attend this church? Sorry, Tchocky, Obama got a bye on this one. Wright has been silenced and brushed under the carpet. He also retired to his multi-million dollar home.

Again, you see racism as black and white. Maybe you listen to August to much.


Why do I care about McCain past so little? I would say if they had any real damning evidence on McCain, after 26 years, they should have figure it out. We have more stories opening daily on Obama. Most of them a bit more dis-stressing then Keating 5. Gordon Liddy, talk about seriously old news. Again, if there was anything to pin on McCain, it would have been done years ago.

Do I consider Obama flocking with Ayers? Well, gee, they had Obama's Senate kick off in his living room. Gosh, they are not just flocking, they were nesting as well. As far as the Mayor and others in Chicago, yes, flocking. Do you believe corruption is not at this local government level? Get a clue. Why are you so trusting of Obama? You have entered the world of the lemings with accepting everything Obama has done in his past.

Yes or no on influence from Ayers? Yes, of course he was influenced. You do not sit in someones living room and just decide to run for Senate over eating peanuts. You are talking to people who are bolstering you to run and proding you on. What, Ayers was busy making a platter of pigs in a blanket. IT WAS THE KICK OFF PARTY!


Sorry Tchocky, I do not wait for the TV. I read CNN, MSNBC, CNN, Politico and FOX on the internet. So, for someone in the ruins of Europe you have the colossal gall to tell me to read up on my own country? When you become a concerned tax payer here the states, we will continue this conversation. In the meantime, you may continue to worship the chosen one! Enjoy it today because when he gets in the world and media will turn on him. They will turn on McCain. In short, Obama who you seem to so much love will not turn this around.


Your seven seconds of discovery are not new for Obama and not some sort of vision in the night for Obama. These avenues have been discussed before. It is a shame that you seems to think all of the crisis is somehow on Bush's shoulders. Sadly, it started in the Clinton administration.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Have you ever entertained the thought that the next President could be worse than the current one?

Good point.

Somehow I feel like we are on a rudderless ship on the voyage to nowhere.

[Type941]

I think that McCain here was defended unfairly.

1. He is old. US senators don't seem to have an age limit and serve till death, sex scandal or voluntarily retirment it seems, to put it bluntly. Judging by quality of McCain's arguments, it's obvious he is just getting a bit old to be a president of USA. He's just fine to be a good old uncle, grandpa, run a hardware store even. But Senator or President? I think it's bit too much for him already, and in 4 years it will be way too much. I wouldn't even care THAT much about his age had he picked a decent VP. But he has an idiot with IQ of 83 and SAT score of 850 or whatever it was. That crazy bitch scares the bejezus out of me, i kid you not.

2. McCain has experience? Sure he does. By virtue of his age. but his history is full of black spots. He is not a maverick (although it's nice to see people actually buying into this crap, haha). The guy has been there for so long that he is Washington insider to the dot. Hence, another minus.

3. He is not a hero in general sense of a word. He is a war vet, from Vietnam. Yes, he refused to be released when had the chance. that's commendable. But he also broke down under tortures, signed all confessions, participated in propoganda film, was an erratic pilot (much worse then Bush!) and leaned on his daddy whenever things got tough. I'm sorry, but there are different kind of heroes from Vietnam, even ones who didn't break down, ones who still returned, and ones who are MODEST about it. McCain uses his vietnam experience to the fullest and milking it every second he gets and hides behind it whenever on the spot. In one word, McCain I think is just a coward. The word HERO is overused when applied to McCain. But this is part of general US propoganda, its' same in every country, all soldiers are heroes, etc. But if we are realistic, that's not the case and let's be frank - Vietnam war isn't exactly finest moment in US history, neither like IRAQ. But those guys shouldnt be blamed for it, instead the governemtn should be.

4. Yes, Obama is not great, no politician is squeeky clean. but the way he is now demonized by republicans is sickening.
Anyway, someone needs to take the hit and blame for this collapse of financial markets. And it should be GOP. They can't fix this. May be neither can Obama, but he deserves a chance. McCain doesn't. He had his chances for almost 30 years. No thanks.

[AVGWarhawk]

Bring up the age argument with Reagan.

Yes, Barney Frank should be patted on the back for his good job with the mortgage banking issue. The GOP should take it all in the shorts. Both are at fault.


I'm not enamored with either of them. Right now I do not think it is the time to "give Obama a chance". This is not little league.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Rod Parsley - Believes America was founded in order to destroy Islam

Rod Parsley has a long record of extreme beliefs all of which were out there in the public domain well before either Parsleys destroy Islam comments and McCain saying what a great leader, moral compass, and spiritual guide that Parsley was. I guess that calls into question McCains judgement.

[Skybird]

'The United States Has Essentially a One-Party System':

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...583454,00.html

Quite some truths the man is telling.

(...)Consumption distracts people. You cannot control your own population by force, but it can be distracted by consumption. (...) James Madison’s position at the Constitutional Convention was that state power should be used "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." That is why the Senate has only a hundred members who are mostly rich and were given a great deal of power. The House of Representatives, with several hundred members, is more democratic and was given much less power. Even liberals like Walter Lippmann, one of the leading intellectuals of the 20th century, was of the opinion that in a properly functioning democracy, the intelligent minority, who should rule, have to be protected from “the trampling and the roar of the bewildered herd.” (...) The European reaction to Obama is a European delusion. (...) This whole election campaign deals with soaring rhetoric, hope, change, all sorts of things, but not with issues. (...) One must not forget that this country was founded by religious fanatics. Since Jimmy Carter, religious fundamentalists play a major role in elections. He was the first president who made a point of exhibiting himself as a born again Christian. That sparked a little light in the minds of political campaign managers: Pretend to be a religious fanatic and you can pick up a third of the vote right away. (...) Of course there are differences, but they are not fundamental. Nobody should have any illusions. The United States has essentially a one-party system and the ruling party is the business party (...) Let us look at the “differences” more closely, and we recognize how limited and cynical they are. The hawks say, if we continue we can win. The doves say, it is costing us too much. But try to find an American politician who says frankly that this aggression is a crime: the issue is not whether we win or not, whether it is expensive or not. Remember the Russian invasion of Afghanistan? Did we have a debate whether the Russians can win the war or whether it is too expensive? This may have been the debate at the Kremlin, or in Pravda. But this is the kind of debate you would expect in a totalitarian society. If General Petraeus could achieve in Iraq what Putin achieved in Chechnya, he would be crowned king. The key question here is whether we apply the same standards to ourselves that we apply to others. (...) The intellectual world is deeply conformist. Hans Morgenthau, who was a founder of realist international relations theory, once condemned what he called “the conformist subservience to power” on the part of the intellectuals. George Orwell wrote that nationalists, who are practically the whole intellectual class of a country, not only do not disapprove of the crimes of their own state, but have the remarkable capacity not even to see them. That is correct. We talk a lot about the crimes of others. When it comes to our own crimes, we are nationalists in the Orwellian sense. (...)

[CCIP]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7662820.stm

Now let's see if this gets spun into a large scandal (and I'm sure the Obama camp will latch onto this like pitbulls). Either way, the ship named Palin seems to be starting to sink...