Blurry attack scope, sabotage?

[Warmonger]

Ok, now I'm a bit puzzled.

The original pic was taken on my 1st patrol in the Med, starting 12/42. 2nd patrol no problems. Now on my 3rd patrol both scopes show the blurs and distortions. They do clean up but after an unproportionally long time.

So I tend to see this as a small bug or glitch of some sort. Or is the water in the Med supposed to be dirtier, oilier than the Atlantic?:hmm:

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by DanCanovas

well i've studied naval warfare for some time and i've yet to find any evidence that sabotage of U-boats by enemies was as extensive as that portrayed in SH3 Commander. Sabotage of boats by U-boat crews occurred particularly when things get nasty after the "2nd Happy time" of 1942. U-boats were relatively well guarded and security was tight, im not saying these things didnt happen but I they would be noticed prior to going to sea. Its unrealistic to suggest that a boat gets 2 weeks into the atlantic and spots a potential target and only then do they realise that someone has dropped some grease on the periscope! VERDAMT!

Maybe someone tampered with seals that keep the water out of the scope? Just a little hole, so when checked in the beginning of the patrol it would seem like it is working, but after a week or so there would be enough water inside the scope to make it unusable. :hmm:

[JScones]

Originally Posted by DanCanovas

well i've studied naval warfare for some time and i've yet to find any evidence that sabotage of U-boats by enemies was as extensive as that portrayed in SH3 Commander. Sabotage of boats by U-boat crews occurred particularly when things get nasty after the "2nd Happy time" of 1942. U-boats were relatively well guarded and security was tight, im not saying these things didnt happen but I they would be noticed prior to going to sea. Its unrealistic to suggest that a boat gets 2 weeks into the atlantic and spots a potential target and only then do they realise that someone has dropped some grease on the periscope! VERDAMT!

Read Steel Boat, Iron Hearts by Hans Goebeler. The author has devoted a whole chapter to sabotage. Quite morale zapping too it was (the author was a crewman on U-505 - the book is of his life aboard U-505).

And the main reason most problems weren't noticed two weeks out to sea was because good Kaleuns did test dives and other checks straight out of port - so picked most of them up sooner and then made a decision as to whether or not to press on. That's of course excluding the sabotage that deliberately did not reveal itself until they were well out to sea (faulty seals would be one such example).

BTW: Dowly, you win the prize! It's damage caused by a faulty lense seal. It's actually not sabotage at all (as anyone who's read the SH3Cmdr Help file will know ), it's just simple wear. Not even vaseline.

Nb - here's what sabotage allegedly occurred on U-505 during just ONE patrol:
-leaky starboard propeller shaft caused by faulty shaft seal (reduced max depth to 40m)
-FuMB Metox electrical short circuit
-GHG underwater listening device out of action
-radio direction finder antenna could not be deployed
-relief valve seals faulty
-emergency valve seals faulty
-diving tank seals faulty
-battery cell seals faulty
-fuel bunker seals faulty causing oil slick which had pinpointed their position from when they left port to when they returned.

The faulty seals were caused by someone pouring battery acid on them.

This patrol was by no means an exceptional example either, I might add.

Other examples of sabotage (some effected on U-505 over the next three patrols and others experienced by other boats):
-sugar in the lube oils
-dead dog in the water tank
-botulism
-drilled pencil hole in fuel bunkers (this little hole plus some other sabotage caused U-505 to return to port at least 4 patrols in a row as it wasn't picked up by the workers)
-poor welding causing stress cracks
etc etc

But having said this, if you think the default *malfunction* effects are too strong for your liking, you can adjust them to be as frequent or as infrequent as you like. Simply read the SH3Cmdr Help file for instructions.

Personally, I think Hemisent has modelled the effects of both malfunctions and sabotage (when enabled) pretty much spot on considering the limitations of SH3. And I don't think the words of Herr Goebeler was part of his research either.

[Warmonger]

JScones, thanks for the comprehensive answer.

I read the SH3Commander documentation twice before but failed to remember this malfunction passage. And no, I won't remove it, actually I like it this way, makes it a bit more interesting having to improvize a bit from time to time.

[JScones]

I'm not 100% sure here - hopefully Hemisent can chip in if he is still around - but the level of malfunctions is also dependant on the type of boat you are sailing. Apparently XXI's were prone to much higher levels of malfunctions than other boats (I think a malfunction occurs on average 2 out of 5 patrols in the XXI and roughly 1 out of 4 patrols for other types, although there is variance between type).

Enable the sabotage effects too and you are really in for a "good" time!

[Kruger]

I read a book....but can't really remember it;s title. The english were using divers which were expecting uboats to depart on their missions, and on a shallow portion of water just after exiting the Loire when the subs had to reduce their speed, the divers would stick bombs to the boats hull, set to explode the next day when the boat was at sea and could not send even a distress call. In the book they say that the germans lost a few submarines this way. Is this story for real ? Also the english lost quite a few divers who could not evade in due time, and were cought by the propellors and transformed into meat shreads.

[JScones]

Yes it is - also referenced in the aforementioned book (although I don't think it says English saboteurs specifically).

Hemisent didn't think it appropriate to model *that* effect! LOL!

[Immacolata]

What files are the sabotage mod inside? I wonder if me running with NYGM 2.2's specific files have removed or somehow altered the chance of experience sabotage during a patrol.

NYGM 2.2 have you replace these files in SH3C

randomised events.cfg
sh3 options.cfg
static settings.cfg

[joea]

This is without doubt one of the more enjoyable new tweaks or features that seen in a long time. Realistic too, I wish other sims had therse kind of failures.

[fredbass]

This is the SH3 Commander thread.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=95448

[DanCanovas]

JScones ill check out that book, thanks for the pointer. I think its a great idea to have wear and tear like this on the boats and well done for including that, I just found it difficult to believe that after intensive planning and preparation, saboteurs risk their lives to get on the boat and put some water in the periscope, they'd trash the thing! General wear and tear is a much better explanation.

[mr chris]

Hey iam reading that book at the moment so far i have been really taken with the way it is written. It is so good to finaly read a book from the u-boat seamans point of view.

[spork542]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Looks like Bernard has been blowing his nose near they eyepiece again.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by JScones

BTW: Dowly, you win the prize! It's damage caused by a faulty lense seal. It's actually not sabotage at all (as anyone who's read the SH3Cmdr Help file will know ), it's just simple wear. Not even vaseline.

Wohoo!! Lucky guess it was.

I remember reading from somewhere that the seals were very prone to crack and because of the humidity it wasnt too rare to find that the lenses were foggy from inside, thus cannot be cleaned.

Is this true?? :hmm:

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

What files are the sabotage mod inside? I wonder if me running with NYGM 2.2's specific files have removed or somehow altered the chance of experience sabotage during a patrol.

NYGM 2.2 have you replace these files in SH3C

randomised events.cfg
sh3 options.cfg
static settings.cfg

To get the sabotage effects as well as the malfunctions, you need to delete/rename the seven "Randomised events_19xx.cfg" files found under the SH3Cmdr\Cfg folder. This will leave just "Randomised events.cfg" - the file that contains both the malfunctions and the sabotage effects.

If you don't want the effects at all, get rid of "Randomised events.cfg" too.

Originally Posted by DanCanovas

JScones ill check out that book, thanks for the pointer. I think its a great idea to have wear and tear like this on the boats and well done for including that, I just found it difficult to believe that after intensive planning and preparation, saboteurs risk their lives to get on the boat and put some water in the periscope, they'd trash the thing! General wear and tear is a much better explanation.

Actually, most didn't risk their lives. They just walked onto the boat after they turned up for work in the morning (remembering the Germans employed civvy workers, at least in the French bases). I think these guys realised that they could do more damage to more subs over a longer period with smaller acts of sabotage than if they tried to blow everything up at once (which would certainly have resulted in their death by either the blasts or the Germans, and possibly only resulting in damage to a few docked subs at the time).

Originally Posted by Dowly

Wohoo!! Lucky guess it was.

I remember reading from somewhere that the seals were very prone to crack and because of the humidity it wasnt too rare to find that the lenses were foggy from inside, thus cannot be cleaned.

Is this true?? :hmm:

Yeah, I read that somewhere too. Stands to reason. It's the effect that is being aimed for anyway (within the contraints of the SH3 graphical engine).