Are Diesel-Powered Submarines Better Than America’s Leading Nuclear Fleet?

Onkel Neal · 10-19-19, 07:54 AM

Are Diesel-Powered Submarines Better Than America’s Leading Nuclear Fleet?

Quote:

Before its 2017 decommissioning, the USS Corpus Christi, a Los Angeles-class fast-attack boat, participated in “Malabar,” an annual naval exercise contested by the United States, Japan and India, all powers that have various reasons to fear a rising and aggressive China.

In the 2015 edition, the Corpus Christi and the Indian Navy’s INS Sindhudhvaj were both tasked with finding each other in a simulated “search-and-destroy” mission—and according to the Indian Navy, it was the Sindhudhvaj, a Russian-built Kilo-class boat, that “found” the American nuclear boat first using sophisticated sonar. (The game “ended” when both boats were informed that India had reported finding the Americans first, and had fired a simulated torpedo that would have hit the target, were it real.)

ikalugin · 10-19-19, 12:46 PM

SSKs are dangerous, but SSNs have their own advantages in terms of endurance, speed, etc.

Schnee · 10-20-19, 11:56 AM

My biggest dream is if a Type XXXI went up against a modern diesel electric.

Problem with that of course an electro boat wouldn't have the same sound-proofing modern boats with modern sensors would have.

Mr Quatro · 10-20-19, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

SSKs are dangerous, but SSNs have their own advantages in terms of endurance, speed, etc.

Plus the CO has options if the unit coming is passive or pinging called decoy's

Plus all ahead full left full rudder worked in Red October

moose1am · 10-20-19, 12:04 PM

It's my feeling that the USA could use some Fuel Cell type submarines to patrol the coasts of the USA while the other nuclear boats patrol the blue ocean depths in peacetime.

Now when or if a war were to start that would be a different story.

These new diesel-electric boats that use fuel cells to recharge the batteries are potentially very dangerous U boasts.

Remember the destruction that the German U-boats did to the allies until we invented and used radar to find them on the ocean surface? Well those U boats had to come to the surface often to recharge their batteries But these modern U boats with fuel Cells can stay underwater much longer making them much harder to find.

We need to fight fire with fire and so I think we need to develop an industry that can make these new types of Fuel Cell U-boats.

Otto K · 10-20-19, 12:53 PM

an Australian Collins class submarine sunk a US Carrier in a naval war game, the Carrier group had Ohio class subs with it and they didn't detect the Collins. Imagine their surprise when a diesel electric sub surfaced next to the carrier

Cybermat47 · 10-21-19, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto K

an Australian Collins class submarine sunk a US Carrier in a naval war game, the Carrier group had Ohio class subs with it and they didn't detect the Collins. Imagine their surprise when a diesel electric sub surfaced next to the carrier

Yeah, that incident has me leaning towards diesel-electrics, personally.

ETR3(SS) · 10-23-19, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto K

an Australian Collins class submarine sunk a US Carrier in a naval war game, the Carrier group had Ohio class subs with it and they didn't detect the Collins. Imagine their surprise when a diesel electric sub surfaced next to the carrier

Ohios are SSBN or SSGN. I highly doubt they were part of a carrier battle group.

ETR3(SS) · 10-23-19, 01:10 AM

Several nations diesel boats have "sunk" a US carrier and this always makes waves in the community. But how many times were said carriers sunk by nuclear submarines as well? This isn't WWII anymore, the ocean battlefield favors the submarine, be it diesel or nuclear.

StrangeSignal · 10-23-19, 04:33 AM

Short answer, no. Not for global powers, at least.

Long answer: depends on what you need the submarine for. A nuclear powered submarine has a far greater operational range and speed than a regular diesel-electric submarine. If you need to make contact with an enemy task force the other side of the ocean as quickly as possible, a nuclear submarine will always be the definite choice. That's why you may see and hear reports of nuclear submarines of the US or the UK being detected as far away as the Indian Ocean, the South Atlantic, or the South China Sea.

The US still holds its naval presence throughout the oceans, and nuclear submarines are an intrinsic part of its operational needs and geopolitical influence. A diesel-electric submarine with a certain capacity could theoretically do this, but not maintain presence for a comparative period of time.

As for patrols and shorter operational ranges, the stealth of a diesel electric makes it a much better choice, since it's also cheaper to maintain - and generally smaller than the gargantuan US or russian subs; it's why they are the better choice for countries like Sweden, Germany, or Australia, that do not have a need to hold naval power overseas.

On a 1v1 scenario, however, a diesel electric sub with proper noise reduction protocols will almost always have the upper hand. But a nuclear submarine is a lot faster, and it stands a much better chance of getting away from an attack.

These incidents of foreign subs sinking carriers in exercises only highlights the need for 'merica to look for better detection measures.

10-19-19, 12:46 PM	#2
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	SSKs are dangerous, but SSNs have their own advantages in terms of endurance, speed, etc. __________________ Grumpy as always.

10-20-19, 12:04 PM	#5
moose1am Frogman Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 303 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The US needs Fuel Cell Powered Subs too It's my feeling that the USA could use some Fuel Cell type submarines to patrol the coasts of the USA while the other nuclear boats patrol the blue ocean depths in peacetime. Now when or if a war were to start that would be a different story. These new diesel-electric boats that use fuel cells to recharge the batteries are potentially very dangerous U boasts. Remember the destruction that the German U-boats did to the allies until we invented and used radar to find them on the ocean surface? Well those U boats had to come to the surface often to recharge their batteries But these modern U boats with fuel Cells can stay underwater much longer making them much harder to find. We need to fight fire with fire and so I think we need to develop an industry that can make these new types of Fuel Cell U-boats. __________________ Regards, Moose1am My avatar resembles the moderator as they are the ones that control the avatar on my page.

10-20-19, 12:53 PM	#6
Otto K Nub Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Canada Posts: 2 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Australian Collins Class an Australian Collins class submarine sunk a US Carrier in a naval war game, the Carrier group had Ohio class subs with it and they didn't detect the Collins. Imagine their surprise when a diesel electric sub surfaced next to the carrier

10-23-19, 01:10 AM	#9
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	Several nations diesel boats have "sunk" a US carrier and this always makes waves in the community. But how many times were said carriers sunk by nuclear submarines as well? This isn't WWII anymore, the ocean battlefield favors the submarine, be it diesel or nuclear. __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

10-20-19, 11:56 AM	#3
Schnee Engineer Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 209 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	My biggest dream is if a Type XXXI went up against a modern diesel electric. Problem with that of course an electro boat wouldn't have the same sound-proofing modern boats with modern sensors would have.

10-23-19, 04:33 AM	#10
StrangeSignal Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Somewhere near the South Atlantic Posts: 5 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	Short answer, no. Not for global powers, at least. Long answer: depends on what you need the submarine for. A nuclear powered submarine has a far greater operational range and speed than a regular diesel-electric submarine. If you need to make contact with an enemy task force the other side of the ocean as quickly as possible, a nuclear submarine will always be the definite choice. That's why you may see and hear reports of nuclear submarines of the US or the UK being detected as far away as the Indian Ocean, the South Atlantic, or the South China Sea. The US still holds its naval presence throughout the oceans, and nuclear submarines are an intrinsic part of its operational needs and geopolitical influence. A diesel-electric submarine with a certain capacity could theoretically do this, but not maintain presence for a comparative period of time. As for patrols and shorter operational ranges, the stealth of a diesel electric makes it a much better choice, since it's also cheaper to maintain - and generally smaller than the gargantuan US or russian subs; it's why they are the better choice for countries like Sweden, Germany, or Australia, that do not have a need to hold naval power overseas. On a 1v1 scenario, however, a diesel electric sub with proper noise reduction protocols will almost always have the upper hand. But a nuclear submarine is a lot faster, and it stands a much better chance of getting away from an attack. These incidents of foreign subs sinking carriers in exercises only highlights the need for 'merica to look for better detection measures.