My father was a member in the Hitlerjugend - Page 2

Dan D · 01-05-15, 09:12 PM

Vot iss?

Dan D · 01-05-15, 10:07 PM

"Dot iss only the fusical vot I call it. Dot iss no better vass de animals, no?

Now I vill explain you vy. Vot is luff? It iss nodding. How long will it last? Two weeks? Vot iss dot? I call luff vot iss de spirchel, dot vot man make to understand de voorld. Luff iss not a dog in the street vot runs around de whole day mit his nose in de air. Is it so or not? Ven two People dey luff each oder, dot iss not luff. Dot iss de fusical".

(Henry Millier- Aller Retour New York)

Kaptlt.Endrass · 01-06-15, 12:15 AM

Interesting 'fun fact' for your family. I believe one of my dad's grandfather's brothers was at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, and a distant relative was one of the Windtalkers in the Pacific.

That said, people can't immediately assume you to be a member of today's NSDAP, or your father. We must remember that Hitler was a charasmatic leader and helped Germany rebuild after war reparations. Also, all were required to join the Hitlerjugend/Wehrmact when of age or as the Russians closed in.

While I think Hitler had some good ideas, his way of carrying them out were...extreme. We have to look at it from an oppresed, post-WWI, German point of view, not as the victors only. 'History is written by the victor.' ring a bell?

CCIP · 01-06-15, 02:29 AM

One interesting genealogical fact about my family is that I've had ancestors on polar opposite sides of the Communist revolution and the Tsarist/Soviet regimes. On the one hand, I'm a direct descendant of the Russian Oldenburgs (who were effectively the same family as the Romanovs) and among my lineage are surnames like Kestner (courtiers for Alexander II and, prior to that, wealthy German nobility) and Smelovski (an old Russian/Polish noble house). On the other hand, one of my great-great-grandfathers was a deputy of Dzerzhinski (founder of the Cheka, the Soviet secret police), and another had held two trade ministry posts before being denounced and repressed in the 30s (though by miracle, he survived and was later partially rehabilitated). A few years ago I found out that one of my grandfathers was also a KGB informant on Soviet merchant ships in his youth.

That said, I don't particularly feel personal guilt for any of it - it's part of my history and, perhaps ironically but more so appropriately, the different sides of my family all suffered from the other side's actions. And I certainly have not directly benefitted from any of their less savoury actions. Ironically, some were lucky to have died when they did - I know that if at least 3 different ancestors of mine had lived past the 1920s, I probably would never have been born (because their families would have been purged with them). For me, nothing says more than the fact that I'm virtually equal parts Russian, German and Finnish in my heritage - if we look at old bitterness and injustices and take it out on the descendants of the perpetrators, what am I supposed to do? Hate myself?

CCIP · 01-06-15, 03:29 AM

I'd also caution against falling for the "oppressed" point of view, because that's been shown many times to have been a political myth - which was not even invented by the Nazis at all, but merely co-opted from the likes of Hindenburg. The idea of a terrible victors' peace and burdens of defeat is a psychological construct, not a socioeconomic fact, and most of Germany's real socioeconomic problems of the 20s were of their own making, exacerbated by a world war they could not have afforded but tried anyway. But it was easier to shift the blame. Hitler rode into power not on the genius of his ideas, but on co-opting a fallacious propaganda maneuver of nationalist conservatives covering their own faults in WWI, and on the coat-tails of an already-recovering German economy that his regime deserves no real credit for. So I really don't see any need for apologetics there.

Betonov · 01-06-15, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Name one.

Shooting himself in 1945.

And providing employment for Germans and business for German companies by preparing for war. It was a good idea until september 1939.

Herr-Berbunch · 01-06-15, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Said that this Hitlerjugend was some kind of ideological scout movement.

Given the choice of learning knots and sewing on buttons for a badge or manning a AAA site shooting down (attempting to, at least) enemy aircraft at the age of 11 I know which I would choose. Every time, add highlighting the family for trouble, and the naivety from politics, brutality, and every other negative ideal and that just reaffirms it.

That said, I don't know what other jobs the youths did. They may sway me away. But on the surface, I would have joined. That doesn't make me, my family, and especially my children Nazis. Unless Gudrun Himmler was my daughter, was was just a Nazi through and through.

Sailor Steve · 01-06-15, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Name one.

Providing money to get Mercedes and Auto Union involved in Grand Prix racing in 1934.

kranz · 01-06-15, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Name one.

I'm joining the competition.
Bear in mind, Tribesman holds SEVERAL diplomas (some might be even genuine) so I'm pretty sure he will choose the most accurate answer.

Highways in Poland - we've been using them ever since.

Oberon · 01-06-15, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan D

It is a miracle, after 1945 all the Nazis, have you ever met one?, seemingly have vanished from earth.

They went to the moon:

Schroeder · 01-06-15, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Given the choice of learning knots and sewing on buttons for a badge or manning a AAA site shooting down (attempting to, at least) enemy aircraft at the age of 11 I know which I would choose. Every time, add highlighting the family for trouble, and the naivety from politics, brutality, and every other negative ideal and that just reaffirms it.

That said, I don't know what other jobs the youths did. They may sway me away. But on the surface, I would have joined. That doesn't make me, my family, and especially my children Nazis. Unless Gudrun Himmler was my daughter, was was just a Nazi through and through.

There were lots of different branches. My grandfather for example started in the motorcycle HJ where they could ride actual small cc motorcycles (who could afford that for their children back then?). But he disliked some of the people there so he went to the "flying HJ" and flew SG38 gliders. Again who could afford flying in the 30ies? So in addition to the pressure by the authorities the kids were also definitely motivated to join as they could do things there which were usually way out of their parent's income.

Sailor Steve · 01-06-15, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yes German motor manufacturers didn't do grand prix racing before hitler.
!934 gave them their best years results in grand prix since their 1931 performance.

I didn't say they did. You asked for one good idea he had. Providing money to those two manufacturers was a good idea. Even if it didn't originate with him, he followed through, making it a good idea he had.

Your serve.

vanjast · 01-06-15, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Your serve.

Ahh!! Tennis, the only game where LOVE means nothing.

AFAIK there was an old man living in the Karoo (semi arid desert over here), who was a member of the SS.
I heard that he still had his uniform in prestine condition. I haven't followed up on this though, but it would an interesting story if he told it.
This was years ago.. so don't now if he's still alive.

Sailor Steve · 01-06-15, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So you consider government subsidies for a manufacturers vanity projects a good idea?

If it helps the country and the people, yes. In that time and place it did.

Betonov · 01-06-15, 04:52 PM

Grand prix's never a bad idea.
Gives the masses something to unwind. And the manufacturers to invent something new.

01-05-15, 09:12 PM	#16
Dan D Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: 9th Flotilla Posts: 839 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Vot iss? __________________

01-05-15, 10:07 PM	#17
Dan D Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: 9th Flotilla Posts: 839 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	"Dot iss only the fusical vot I call it. Dot iss no better vass de animals, no? Now I vill explain you vy. Vot is luff? It iss nodding. How long will it last? Two weeks? Vot iss dot? I call luff vot iss de spirchel, dot vot man make to understand de voorld. Luff iss not a dog in the street vot runs around de whole day mit his nose in de air. Is it so or not? Ven two People dey luff each oder, dot iss not luff. Dot iss de fusical". (Henry Millier- Aller Retour New York) __________________

01-06-15, 12:15 AM	#18
Kaptlt.Endrass Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: No Longer On A Big Grey Floaty Thing Posts: 395 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	Interesting 'fun fact' for your family. I believe one of my dad's grandfather's brothers was at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, and a distant relative was one of the Windtalkers in the Pacific. That said, people can't immediately assume you to be a member of today's NSDAP, or your father. We must remember that Hitler was a charasmatic leader and helped Germany rebuild after war reparations. Also, all were required to join the Hitlerjugend/Wehrmact when of age or as the Russians closed in. While I think Hitler had some good ideas, his way of carrying them out were...extreme. We have to look at it from an oppresed, post-WWI, German point of view, not as the victors only. 'History is written by the victor.' ring a bell? __________________ "That flag and I are twins, born in the same hour from the same womb of destiny. We cannot be parted in life or in death; so long as we float, we shall float together." As much as I dislike it sometimes, I'm a tin can sailor, through and through.

01-06-15, 02:29 AM	#19
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	One interesting genealogical fact about my family is that I've had ancestors on polar opposite sides of the Communist revolution and the Tsarist/Soviet regimes. On the one hand, I'm a direct descendant of the Russian Oldenburgs (who were effectively the same family as the Romanovs) and among my lineage are surnames like Kestner (courtiers for Alexander II and, prior to that, wealthy German nobility) and Smelovski (an old Russian/Polish noble house). On the other hand, one of my great-great-grandfathers was a deputy of Dzerzhinski (founder of the Cheka, the Soviet secret police), and another had held two trade ministry posts before being denounced and repressed in the 30s (though by miracle, he survived and was later partially rehabilitated). A few years ago I found out that one of my grandfathers was also a KGB informant on Soviet merchant ships in his youth. That said, I don't particularly feel personal guilt for any of it - it's part of my history and, perhaps ironically but more so appropriately, the different sides of my family all suffered from the other side's actions. And I certainly have not directly benefitted from any of their less savoury actions. Ironically, some were lucky to have died when they did - I know that if at least 3 different ancestors of mine had lived past the 1920s, I probably would never have been born (because their families would have been purged with them). For me, nothing says more than the fact that I'm virtually equal parts Russian, German and Finnish in my heritage - if we look at old bitterness and injustices and take it out on the descendants of the perpetrators, what am I supposed to do? Hate myself? __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-06-15, 03:29 AM	#20
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I'd also caution against falling for the "oppressed" point of view, because that's been shown many times to have been a political myth - which was not even invented by the Nazis at all, but merely co-opted from the likes of Hindenburg. The idea of a terrible victors' peace and burdens of defeat is a psychological construct, not a socioeconomic fact, and most of Germany's real socioeconomic problems of the 20s were of their own making, exacerbated by a world war they could not have afforded but tried anyway. But it was easier to shift the blame. Hitler rode into power not on the genius of his ideas, but on co-opting a fallacious propaganda maneuver of nationalist conservatives covering their own faults in WWI, and on the coat-tails of an already-recovering German economy that his regime deserves no real credit for. So I really don't see any need for apologetics there. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-06-15, 04:52 PM	#30
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Grand prix's never a bad idea. Gives the masses something to unwind. And the manufacturers to invent something new.