Kind of ironic this happened...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So if a legal "savage" had done it it would be fine and dandy.

I would have been mad, but not as mad, at least would have an actual right to be in the country.This individual does not, should not be here in first place.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

What legals do is immaterial here, they have a right to be in the country.This guy should not have even been here to do this.

I agree. As long as you're a citizen of the Reich- sorry,United States, you can commit as many crimes as you like, because you're not a Jew- sorry, Mexican.


But seriously, I'm pretty sure that most of your opinions are American Nazi party policy.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I agree. As long as you're a citizen of the Reich- sorry,United States, you can commit as many crimes as you like, because you're not a Jew- sorry, Mexican.

I don't see Bubblehead as being racist here. He did emphasize his point that it's not about Mexicans per se, but about illegal immigrants.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure that most of your opinions are American Nazi party policy.

That is pretty much over the line where personal attacks are concerned. Please dial it back a bit.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I agree. As long as you're a citizen of the Reich- sorry,United States, you can commit as many crimes as you like, because you're not a Jew- sorry, Mexican.


But seriously, I'm pretty sure that most of your opinions are American Nazi party policy.

Stop race baiting, this has nothing to do with race.I would be just as angry if it were an illegal immigrants from europe.Bottom line, they have no right to be here for many reasons, ranging from their effects on the economy, crime, resources etc then they actually harm me or someone I care about, it just further lets me know why it is wrong this problem is left as it is.

[TarJak]

I think the point he made is valid. Even if every ancestor of yours was not directly involved in owning slaves, they cannot help but to have received benefits economically from the slavery that existed in the USA.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by TarJak

I think the point he made is valid. Even if every ancestor of yours was not directly involved in owning slaves, they cannot help but to have received benefits economically from the slavery that existed in the USA.

Tarjak - while that may be the case - at what point does the responsibility end? Seriously. Consider this. Maybe your great grandfather shot someone and killed them. So should you suffer the death penalty or imprisonment for that? How is it appropriate that you are defined as a murderer and have a duty to "pay" for the crime of your ancestor? Maybe it wasn't your ancestor - maybe it was your ancestor's neighbor that did it - but your ancestor "allowed it" (because of the concept of a responsible society) so they are culpable anyway.

Slavery is - in our society - a crime. I am glad it is. At no time have I ever said that slavery was "good". The point that you call valid would be if I - or others - were the ones who owned slaves. We would owe them because of it. But I wouldn't have owned slaves anyway - so the idea that I am somehow responsible to "right the wrongs" of other generations societal actions is ridiculous.

If repression of blacks was wrong - then repression of whites to let minorities "get ahead" is just as wrong. Both are racism. An equal playing field is what is right.

Yes - things like the education system fail minorities. Yet the worst schools often get the most money. Allowing parents the right to send their kids (regardless of race) to successful schools would close the education gap. Throwing more money at bad schools has proven to not do so.

[Bubblehead1980]

I really wish I had time to type out the response I would like right now but I do not.The "chip on your shoulder" view many non whites in this country have and those who support them with their liberal white guilt, just beyond reasonable thinking.I assure you my family and I have no benefits from slavery, no wealth has been passed down for generations, nor has it for most people.Really, if anything, we are suffering due to the exploitation of emotions attached that ugly chapter in our history by politicians and a segment of the population to achieve political power via votes.Unfortunately, in the hyper emotional world of the 1960's, they pushed things to where laws were passed that LEGALLY discriminates against white people.Reverse Racism in action and sadly it is still the law.Hopefully, Supreme Court will overturn AA at some point in near future.Bottom line, we should all be treated equally, can't change the past, so people need to let go and allow everyone to be judged on their merits, the content of their character, not the color of their skin and past actions of their ancestors.

The struggle of racial equality for non whites in America was once very real and at times, it still is.However, institutionalized racism towards non whites is gone, it is illegal.Individual cases of racism will always happen.With 312+ million people in a population which is so diverse, it will happen on all sides, nothing can do about it but make sure institutional racism, real racism does not exist.Now, that the race card is for most part played out, notice the new "victim" struggle is for LGBT "community" , someone always has to have a "victim" to exploit and sadly, most of our brain dead population for fall for it when the real issues of our time are economic.Government causing a stagnant economy, taxing like crazy, and 7(officially) percent unemployed but in reality it's about 16%.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Tarjak - while that may be the case - at what point does the responsibility end? Seriously. Consider this. Maybe your great grandfather shot someone and killed them. So should you suffer the death penalty or imprisonment for that? How is it appropriate that you are defined as a murderer and have a duty to "pay" for the crime of your ancestor? Maybe it wasn't your ancestor - maybe it was your ancestor's neighbor that did it - but your ancestor "allowed it" (because of the concept of a responsible society) so they are culpable anyway.

Slavery is - in our society - a crime. I am glad it is. At no time have I ever said that slavery was "good". The point that you call valid would be if I - or others - were the ones who owned slaves. We would owe them because of it. But I wouldn't have owned slaves anyway - so the idea that I am somehow responsible to "right the wrongs" of other generations societal actions is ridiculous.

If repression of blacks was wrong - then repression of whites to let minorities "get ahead" is just as wrong. Both are racism. An equal playing field is what is right.

Yes - things like the education system fail minorities. Yet the worst schools often get the most money. Allowing parents the right to send their kids (regardless of race) to successful schools would close the education gap. Throwing more money at bad schools has proven to not do so.

My read of his point was that it's not about responsibility or when it ends. It was simply that the playing field is not an even one because of past practices. This is what you are complaining about whilst being in an advantageous position.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by TarJak

My read of his point was that it's not about responsibility or when it ends. It was simply that the playing field is not an even one because of past practices. This is what you are complaining about whilst being in an advantageous position.

Your right - it is not even. Now minorities get a "boost up" when others do not. What your basically saying is that "uneven" is the correct stance. I disagree. If holding down one subset of people was wrong before - then its wrong now.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

How do you figure that I am somehow in an "advantageous position"?

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Your right - it is not even. Now minorities get a "boost up" when others do not. What your basically saying is that "uneven" is the correct stance. I disagree. If holding down one subset of people was wrong before - then its wrong now.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

How do you figure that I am somehow in an "advantageous position"?

Well that is simple to answer.
Since welfare is apparently reparations for slavery segregation and institutionalised racism, if you ever claim welfare you get it without having all that crap behind you, you lucky whitey, oh the joys of pale pigmentation, all the advantageous "free" stuff without the persecution.

[Sailor Steve]

Okay, tone back the rhetoric, please.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Okay, tone back the rhetoric, please.

OK hows this?

Allowing parents the right to send their kids (regardless of race) to successful schools would close the education gap.

I was under the impression that segregated education was made illegal many years ago.
Are you suggesting that this method of persecution based on skin colour is still practiced?

I could perhaps follow it up with something about some black folks who were generously allowed to attend a church as part of its congregation(which is nice), until they got too uppity and thought that they would be allowed to have their marriage conducted in the "white" church they attended by the pastor who preached to them every Sabbath.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Well that is simple to answer.
Since welfare is apparently reparations for slavery segregation and institutionalised racism, if you ever claim welfare you get it without having all that crap behind you, you lucky whitey, oh the joys of pale pigmentation, all the advantageous "free" stuff without the persecution.

QED

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by TarJak

QED

Really - your going to quote idiocy as your proof? An "answer" that ignores things like racial quota's in schools and affirmative action in the workplace.

Reverse racism (and sexism) is being instituted in elementary schools today. Just look at Harvey Scott K-8, where a lunchtime drum circle is held - but only for "Black or Brown" kids. White and American Indian boys not allowed. Girls not allowed at all. The same kind of thing happens all day long when you look at the quota system we have in colleges, or the affirmative action requirements in the workplace. When programs intentionally lift up mediocrity (again - regardless of race) over those more qualified - its not equality.

The "equal rights movement" wasn't about reverse racism - but that is the outcome today.

[AVGWarhawk]

Tribesman:

Allowing parents the right to send their kids (regardless of race) to successful schools would close the education gap.

They are allowed. However, economic/financial gap often eliminate any idea of attending affluent schools. I certainly can not afford Harvard for my kids. Also, the area some folks live attribute to the quality or lack there of in the school. The school system I live some students are bused to other schools within in the district. Some idea of making it all equal. Not sure if it works.

I was under the impression that segregated education was made illegal many years ago.
Are you suggesting that this method of persecution based on skin colour is still practiced?

Segregation was eliminated years ago. However, through the use of pricing certain folks out of the housing market in particular areas leads to predominantly white schools for that neighborhood. Although it is not "practiced" as some claim it is alive and well.

I could perhaps follow it up with something about some black folks who were generously allowed to attend a church as part of its congregation(which is nice), until they got too uppity and thought that they would be allowed to have their marriage conducted in the "white" church they attended by the pastor who preached to them every Sabbath.

This has never happened in any churches I have attended. Nor would I attend such a church. I can not account for all churches as this issue has been in the news recently. I believe in Mississippi area if I'm not mistaken.