Subsim front page article that pissed me off

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by areo16

The submarine is a machine, it does not decide on what political ideology it is. It's not a living thing. The submarine was military equipment, it was not a party standard or a nazi flag. The submarine is not Nazi, it is German Kreigsmarine.

And the German Kriegsmarine was under the command of Adolf Hitler.

[areo16]

Originally Posted by privateer

It was a Nazi U-Boat.

Your blending the political party with the military. These are two separate things. Sometimes they shared units, like the paramilitary forces that consisted solely of Nazi sympathizers, but this uboat was not one of those shared units.

[areo16]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

And the German Kriegsmarine was under the command of Adolf Hitler.

For a time.
The uboat was not a member of the party, nor did it belong to the party. The uboat belonged to the military and the government.

Hitler was Chancellor first, then dictator. The chancellor post he held belonged to the government. He was a member of the Nazi party. Once he became dictator the government changed into a dictatorship, controlled by the Nazi party. The government was a separate entity from the party, but the latter controlled the former. But they are not the same. The military/government owned that boat. And also a case can be made that the military and the government were not the same entity. In the last days of the war leading members of the military became the leaders of the government and asked for peace.

Your blending...

You want to argue the title placed on the Sub by media types.
That's funny as hell!

[areo16]

Originally Posted by privateer

You want to argue the title placed on the Sub by media types.
That's funny as hell!

I know, its illogical. But some are defending the title. The title was picked for an attraction of readership alone. It's not the correct title to use.

Originally Posted by areo16

I know, its illogical. But some are defending the title. The title was picked for an attraction of readership alone. It's not the correct title to use.

Well then go sue the writers or complain there.
Here, this is going nowhere I guess.

[areo16]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

We had the same discussion a few years ago when another "Nazi vessel" was found. I am not too happy with this term as it is just to attract readers, a cheap marketing strategy so to say, but I also believe you take all of this a little...too serious?

I am German, so one could think I take articles like that more personal but even I can see that the article is clearly talking about the vessel, the u-boat and not the sailors. Otherwise it would have used crappy labels like "Nazi crew" or whatever...

Well, as I said... you might take all of that a little too serious...

Well its a double standard here in America. Someone uses the N-word (racial slure) in media and they lose their career. But were still throwing around the Nazi word on men who sacrificed greater things than anyone of us have, their lives, and we keep chugging away at it like nothing bad was said. Its wrong. Calling a dead veteran a nazi when he isn't one is more disrespectful in my eyes, then a racial slur about a living person. Because that dead vet can't defend himself, and now you've just tarnished how he will be remembered for the rest of humanity. The living guy can change all that because he's still breathing.

But its not just being used on one dead vet, its getting thrown around like its hot off the press. The term is abused like no other. It really is.

It's a way to sell news. Nothing more.
I'll hope Skybird comments as I love his thoughts on things such as this.


Subsim just posts the news and links. Others create those.

[areo16]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Well then go sue the writers or complain there.
Here, this is going nowhere I guess.

Well, subsim re-posted it to their front page. Which essentially is advertising the articles to subsim readers. I want to know subsim's stance on the issue. It's important to me, and whether or not I will spend anymore of my time here.

Originally Posted by areo16

Well its a double standard here in America. Someone uses the N-word (racial slure) in media and they lose their career. But were still throwing around the Nazi word on men who sacrificed greater things than anyone of us have, their lives, and we keep chugging away at it like nothing bad was said. Its wrong. Calling a dead veteran a nazi when he isn't one is more disrespectful in my eyes, then a racial slur about a living person. Because that dead vet can't defend himself, and now you've just tarnished how he will be remembered for the rest of humanity. The living guy can change all that because he's still breathing.

But its not just being used on one dead vet, its getting thrown around like its hot off the press. The term is abused like no other. It really is.

I agree with you, but not in this case.
There is not the slightest hint that the article calls the crew "Nazi", really. Not even if you try hard reading between the lines... It's just not there. They labeled the sub as "Nazi" for reasons stated earlier, for no other reason.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by privateer

I'll hope Skybird comments as I love his thoughts on things such as this.

j/k Sky

As I've already said, you're preaching to the choir. How's the response from Huff Post?

Originally Posted by areo16

Well, subsim re-posted it to their front page. Which essentially is advertising the articles to subsim readers. I want to know subsim's stance on the issue. It's important to me, and whether or not I will spend anymore of my time here.

This board has some mighty-fine members with big hearts and minds. We also have some nutcases (which we hold dearly and pet them daily) - but over all this is a great place compared to the hell-holes you find elsewhere in the internetz tubes.

I don't know anyone here who would disrespect German soldiers for being a part of Hitlers manic ego-trip. But I'd rather speak for myself, just wanted to share my opinion after being a part of this mess for 10 years (OMG?)

Originally Posted by areo16

that dead vet can't defend himself

No. He can't.
But I saw nothing that states all crew were Nazi's.
I only see a Nazi Sub was found. Which is true.
Will the unknowing general population believe all Crew members were Nazi's?
Probably. That's why News media state such things as they do.
It sells. And don't think for a moment selling has nothing to do with it!
You bought into it by starting this thread!

Claim it how you want, Mate. But you got sold!

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by areo16

Well, subsim re-posted it to their front page. Which essentially is advertising the articles to subsim readers. I want to know subsim's stance on the issue. It's important to me, and whether or not I will spend anymore of my time here.

I've never experienced anti German sentiments here. The site owner himself has travelled several times to Germany to meet with Subsim members so I don't believe he has any anti German feelings either.

[August]

The huffpost headline is 100% correct and accurate regardless of the crews political leanings. The flag that flew above that submarine (when it wasn't submerged) was the swastika. That makes it a nazi sub.

My own grandfather served in the Luftwaffe from 1939-45. He was certainly no nazi, just a conscripted farmer but the 88mm gun he operated, like that submarine, existed only to serve the nazi cause. That makes them nazi weapons and it is completely accurate and proper to refer to them as such.