More Holocaust survivors to receive German compensation

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

So what do you believe to be the true figure?

I think that it's around 11 million.

That's all the Jews, protesting Christians, autistic people, physically disabled people, Gypsys, Homosexuals, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and anyone else who Hitler didn't like.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I think that it's around 11 million.

That's all the Jews, protesting Christians, autistic people, physically disabled people, Gypsys, Homosexuals, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and anyone else who Hitler didn't like.

You may well be right but thought must be given to that sum....it is a lot more than what has been published of late.....

[Gerald]

According To wikipedia, about The Holocaust,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[Jimbuna]

Oh please....no more cut and paste


Opinions carry far more weight

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Oh please....no more cut and paste


Opinions carry far more weight

True...but its was so simple,sorry

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Vendor

True...but its was so simple,sorry

Hey no problem and definitely not needing an apology

[Red Brow]

With German's slow down in manufacturing at this moment, perhaps it should just issue 'holocaust coupons' that can be redeemed for German goods at a reduced price. That way Germany can slightly help its own workers.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Well, what is that in number terms?

sorry, but if Siemens, IBM and Hollerith couldn't give any precise number, I can't either. But the number can't be bigger than the actual number of them on the occupied territories.

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I think that it's around 11 million.

That's all the Jews, protesting Christians, autistic people, physically disabled people, Gypsys, Homosexuals, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Aussie chatterboxes and anyone else who Hitler didn't like.

fixed.

Protesting Christians?
Ok, so yes, indeed, priests had their own triangle in Auschwitz and catholic priests were a similar group to scientists and politicians, i.e they were caught and executed/sent to camps via planned actions. (not like casual civilians)

Originally Posted by Red Brow

With German's slow down in manufacturing at this moment, perhaps it should just issue 'holocaust coupons' that can be redeemed for German goods at a reduced price. That way Germany can slightly help its own workers.

Do you really think that they need that money for food?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by kranz

sorry, but if Siemens, IBM and Hollerith couldn't give any precise number, I can't either. But the number can't be bigger than the actual number of them on the occupied territories.

When I argue that a numerical figure is incorrect, it is usually because I have a figure that I think is correct. Otherwise it's all just hot air.

Protesting Christians?

What proportion of the clergy in your own country was rounded up by the nazis and sent to concentration camps?
Of course that proportion wouldn't include all those that were rounded up and executed en masse in 1939 under the sonderfahndungsbuch lists.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by kranz

sorry, but if Siemens, IBM and Hollerith couldn't give any precise number, I can't either. But the number can't be bigger than the actual number of them on the occupied territories.

5.2mil - 6mil is the generally accepted, estimated, figure.

You think that's too many or too few?

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

When I argue that a numerical figure is incorrect, it is usually because I have a figure that I think is correct. Otherwise it's all just hot air.

If you had read post no 11, you would know that what I'm trying to argue is not any 'numerical figure' but the way in which they came up with it.
Let me give you an example:
The original calculation of the Auschwitz victims was around 3 million.
How did they come up with such a figure?
The German blew up most of the "death" facilities i.e gas chambers and crematories. For the purpose of building a museum in the former camp, these facilities were rebuilt on the basis of German plans. What is more, the Germans burnt most of the documents concerning the prisoners. (of course you will find idiots who claim that some transports "went straight to gas", thus they avoided being officially recorded. When I was in the secondary school, my history teacher asked the guide in the museum if that was possible. His answer was that 'off the record' executions could only take place outside organized camps, therefore such unregistered transports could not take place)
Coming back to the calculations. The 3 million figure was achieved through some math calculations such as theoretical efficiency of gas chambers per hour, theoretical efficiency of crematories etc.
The estimation for today is between 1.1 to 1.5 million. Down from 3 million and still the discrepancy in the findings is at around 35%.
And we are talking here about just one camp.

Back to giving advice.
I'm much obliged to you for showing me where to improve.
Now my advice for you: before you tell people what to do, make sure you you have done your homework by grasping at least the essentials of the discussed matter so that you know what you are talking about.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Dowly

5.2mil - 6mil is the generally accepted, estimated, figure.

5.2 you say? I've never seen that figure tbh. (at least not in any ' officially approved' source).
Good, good. It means that we are going in the right direction. <smiley_face>

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by kranz

If you had read post no 11, you would know that what I'm trying to argue is not any 'numerical figure' but the way in which they came up with it.

You made no such argument in that post. You gave a snippy answer and posted a bunch of emoticons. You know, your usual modus operandi.

Let me give you an example:
The original calculation of the Auschwitz victims was around 3 million.
How did they come up with such a figure?
The German blew up most of the "death" facilities i.e gas chambers and crematories. For the purpose of building a museum in the former camp, these facilities were rebuilt on the basis of German plans. What is more, the Germans burnt most of the documents concerning the prisoners. (of course you will find idiots who claim that some transports "went straight to gas", thus they avoided being officially recorded. When I was in the secondary school, my history teacher asked the guide in the museum if that was possible. His answer was that 'off the record' executions could only take place outside organized camps, therefore such unregistered transports could not take place)
Coming back to the calculations. The 3 million figure was achieved through some math calculations such as theoretical efficiency of gas chambers per hour, theoretical efficiency of crematories etc.
The estimation for today is between 1.1 to 1.5 million. Down from 3 million and still the discrepancy in the findings is at around 35%.
And we are talking here about just one camp.

That almost resembles an answer, albeit in a Skybirdian round-about way. You still didn't say what you thought it was, but it looks like it is a close as we are going to get.

Back to giving advice.
I'm much obliged to you for showing me where to improve.
Now my advice for you: before you tell people what to do, make sure you you have done your homework by grasping at least the essentials of the discussed matter so that you know what you are talking about.

See above. Essentials indeed.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by kranz

If you had read post no 11, you would know that what I'm trying to argue is not any 'numerical figure' but the way in which they came up with it.
Let me give you an example:
The original calculation of the Auschwitz victims was around 3 million.
How did they come up with such a figure?
The German blew up most of the "death" facilities i.e gas chambers and crematories. For the purpose of building a museum in the former camp, these facilities were rebuilt on the basis of German plans. What is more, the Germans burnt most of the documents concerning the prisoners. (of course you will find idiots who claim that some transports "went straight to gas", thus they avoided being officially recorded. When I was in the secondary school, my history teacher asked the guide in the museum if that was possible. His answer was that 'off the record' executions could only take place outside organized camps, therefore such unregistered transports could not take place)
Coming back to the calculations. The 3 million figure was achieved through some math calculations such as theoretical efficiency of gas chambers per hour, theoretical efficiency of crematories etc.
The estimation for today is between 1.1 to 1.5 million. Down from 3 million and still the discrepancy in the findings is at around 35%.
And we are talking here about just one camp.

When you talk about the 3 million figure it's also important to say the source and the time of this claim. Much new information was gained after historians finally had access to the Soviet archives, not before the early 90s. This is why the number went down. Many other non-Holocaust related numbers were also corrected.
This must be funny for people who spew the bull about how Jews control the historic research (or any and all media), that those numbers were relatively quickly accepted by historians. However this is what science is about: new sources, new insights.

The US Holocaust museum writes those numbers

At least 960,000 Jews were killed in Auschwitz. Other victims included approximately 74,000 Poles, 21,000 Roma (Gypsies), and 15,000 Soviet prisoners of war; and 10,000-15,000 members of other nationalities (Soviet civilians, Czechs, Yugoslavs, French, Germans, and Austrians).

(source:http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005189)

Regarding the "Straight to the gas": The article above also says that about approximately 320000 of 420000 Hungarian Jews were send directly into the chambers. Why is this an idiotic claim?
The people were registered when the trains took off. The Reichsbahn even got money from the SS for the tranportation (http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/trains.html).
The Selektion happpened at the ramp, when the trains arrived, a well-documented fact. For the people who died during the transport and for those who were of no use (=instant death sentence) there was no bureaucratic necessity to register them on the prisoner list. Why should they, they needed no resources like space in the barracks, food, clothing, etc. So in the cold world of bureaucracy they never arrived in the camps as prisoners.