Property Rights vs 2A Rights....

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

But they've been fine since you've moved away...

They are all in jail.

[Morts]

If its private property, wouldnt the owner(s) be able to dictate whether or not you can carry a weapon there ?

[August]

Originally Posted by Morts

If its private property, wouldnt the owner(s) be able to dictate whether or not you can carry a weapon there ?

I would have thought so as well but apparently not although i'll bet the laws on this vary quite a bit from state to state.

[geetrue]

What about all of those signs that say; "No shirt, no shoes, no service"

even though feet are legal they must be constrained by at least a pair of flip flops.

Respect the law or pay the fine is what I would choose.

Arizona has a right to carry law for everyone in the state ...

Left over from the old west days, unloaded is the preferred method,
but you can even carry one resting in the front seat as long as it is out in the open.

Same with on your hip as long as it is out in the open.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by Osmium Steele

We need an eyeroll emoticon.

Ok so educate me here....

Let's say I have a CHP and I'm carrying it, concealed, of course. Now I walk into my office building here, where there's a big "NO WEAPONS BEYOND THIS POINT" sign right on the door. Are you saying that sign is full of BS? I thought if it was private property they could do as they pleased?

Two things.
Is that part of the office building open to the public at will and are the employees there bound by the terms of their contract regarding company policy?

What about all of those signs that say; "No shirt, no shoes, no service"

Hygiene, safety and public decency can be used to cover those.

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Are you saying that sign is full of BS? I thought if it was private property they could do as they pleased?

Since when can anyone "do as they please" on private property? Private property use is regulated through the nose in this country. Especially commercial property.

In the scenario above, the sign is a company directive and usually does not hold the force of law. Now you are talking about employer/employee contract law regarding the 2nd Amendment, which is an issue still being bandied about in the courts today.

Very different than Joe Six-pack walking into Bob's Ace Hardware to buy a new drill, and Bob whipping out his gat and busting a cap in Joe's butt.

In your scenario, it would depend on quite a few factors. Some states allow the restriction of concealed carry, by employees, in the workplace. Some do not. Federal government contractors, and some others, can set up firearm free zones under federal regulation. In such cases, it is a violation of federal law.

In any case, the company has a right to develop the policy, post the sign, and fire your butt for violating it.

Most court battles regarding this subject today concern employee rights to have a weapon locked away in their private vehicle in the company parking lots. It is looking like the precedents being set are in favor of the employee while outside the doors of the facility, while, correctly in my opinion, preserving the right of the employer to terminate employment if the weapon is brought inside in violation of company policy.

[Platapus]

In Virginia (both North and South), you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon, even with a permit, into or onto private property where the owner has posted that weapons are not allowed.

Code of Virginia 18.2-308 (O)

The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

As always, different states have different laws.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

[...]like that hotel owner who got sued because he refused to have a couple of poofs on his property

Are you referring to the case in Germany, where the hotel owner got sued because he refused to accomidate members of a Nazi party? This guy won the lawsuit against the NPD as he didn't discriminate them on gender, race, religion, etc., but refered to his right to do business with anyone he wants and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Platapus

In Virginia (both North and South), you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon, even with a permit, into or onto private property where the owner has posted that weapons are not allowed.

Code of Virginia 18.2-308 (O)

I took the time to check out the text (I hate "Law English"!) and noticed that it seems to include businesses open to the public, it states it excepts the business owner (B.1), however nothing is said that customers are an exception.
This would also be my argument why stores can refuse to serve people with CCWs: the rights of the business owner. In the US you sometimes can see signs stating: "We chose the right to refuse service", afaik they are still legal as long as the stores don't refuse the service because of the reasons stated in the 14th Amendment, which are clearly defined.
So in reverse, discrimination based on clothes ("no shirt no service", tie rules in restaurants, "appropriate" clothes in clubs) or guns seems to be legal. Everything else would go against the freedom of enterprise the store owner has, the freedom to do business with who they want.

Some odd observations about § 18.2-308:
- you still are allowed to carry a crossbow
- The Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell seems to have special privileges in comparision to his fellow Harbor Masters (C.6) - maybe he made a generous donation (or I don't get his special role, in this case the laugh's on me )

[andy_311]

Your not allowed to carry a firearm period in the UK.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by razark

There's no option for "Yes, I would respect the owner's wishes and not carry on his property"?

This.

While we have our constitutional rights, we are not empowered to do as we damn well please where we dam well please. In reality, and typically, an individual's rights end where another individual's rights begin.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Osmium Steele

Since when can anyone "do as they please" on private property? Private property use is regulated through the nose in this country. Especially commercial property.

Allow me to rephrase - "I thought if it was private property they could do as they pleased in regards to allowing or banning firearms?"

And I found this regarding Texas....no concealed carry in a bar, school, sporting event, church, hospital or where the sign is posted that says no firearms allowed.

Are you referring to the case in Germany, where the hotel owner got sued because he refused to accomidate members of a Nazi party? This guy won the lawsuit against the NPD as he didn't discriminate them on gender, race, religion, etc., but refered to his right to do business with anyone he wants and vice versa.

No it was a case where the hotel owner lost because he did discriminate on those mentioned grounds.

And I found this regarding Texas....

Thats quite a few terms and conditions, I suppose they should be repeated from every state of the union plus all the federal ones then you can add in all the multitudes from every town, city, county......

[CaptainHaplo]

Again, please assume for the sake of the question that a sign, while posted - does not make you carrying on the premises an illegal act...

I am very heartened by the results so far - its quite a bit different from the attitude of a pro 2A board.

I will give it another day, then chime in with my own thoughts about this question. Thank you all for answering so far!

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

And I found this regarding Texas....no concealed carry in a bar, school, sporting event, church, hospital or where the sign is posted that says no firearms allowed.

And most concealed carry states have similar codes, protected sites, etc.

As Ducimus stated above, the flashpoint seems to be where one person's rights come up against another's, with the inevitable question, "Why do his rights supercede my own?" The courts will continue to answer that question for eternity.