Are schools going too far?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by U570

I've heard of all crazy things in schools; private school uniforms in public schools, kids in Britain being diagnosed with stress etc. It's just getting out of hand with-the-over the top approach to schools. With the uniforms, kids are getting pre-suspensions (playground exclusion, detentions etc.) for not wearing 'proper' school socks.

Believe it or not, uniforms make a tremendous difference in student behavior. When I taught in a parochial school there was always a marked change in the students every time we had a dress down day. Most of the public school teachers that I know, including many of the ones I kept in touch with would love to have a uniform policy established.

[Diopos]

The uniform thing can be viewed (and handled) within two different contexts.

1. Traditional "old-school" discipline (mostly for its own sake) OR
2. As a lesson on equality and citizenship. Must go with an environment that promotes personality "growth". (We are "equal" but not "identical").

.

[Stealhead]

My sister can counter your claim she works for a parish(Louisiana version of county) school board as a teacher this school system has a uniform policy but only if the administrator deems them to be required.She has taught at schools requiring uniforms and those not she and fellow teachers(this was at a discussion involving a few teachers working for this same school system) agreed that the behavior was about the same at all schools uniform or no.

They all agreed that the best behaved school was the one that had no uniform requirement but had very strict rules on when the kids could talk they where not allowed to talk even during lunch which they all felt was overly strict.

If a teacher has never worked at a school that requires uniforms it stands to reason that they might assume that uniforms alone promote better behavior that does not mean that it true.I would argue that the kids at the dress down day school acted up a bit more do simply to the change of pace dress down feels more relaxed as a result one will feel more apt to act up a bit.If the cat is way the mice shall play make one rule more lax and down they all go.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

My sister can counter your claim she works for a parish(Louisiana version of county) school board as a teacher this school system has a uniform policy but only if the administrator deems them to be required.She has taught at schools requiring uniforms and those not she and fellow teachers(this was at a discussion involving a few teachers working for this same school system) agreed that the behavior was about the same at all schools uniform or no.

They all agreed that the best behaved school was the one that had no uniform requirement but had very strict rules on when the kids could talk they where not allowed to talk even during lunch which they all felt was overly strict.

If a teacher has never worked at a school that requires uniforms it stands to reason that they might assume that uniforms alone promote better behavior that does not mean that it true.I would argue that the kids at the dress down day school acted up a bit more do simply to the change of pace dress down feels more relaxed as a result one will feel more apt to act up a bit.If the cat is way the mice shall play make one rule more lax and down they all go.

Perhaps. We're both citing anecdotal evidence so it is probable that the truth is somewhere in between. Where I know that you are absolutely right is in that the tone set by the school in terms of it's discipline policy is more important than any uniform policy. For that to work you need strong-willed teachers, but even moreso strong-willed administrators. Parents are typically in favor of tough discipline policies until their kid is in violation of the rules. A strong administrator will not cave to the parental complaints, regardless of how loud they get.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I hope you're kidding. Porn stars do not belong at school functions.

^This.

The hugging prohibition however leads far too far.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Believe it or not, uniforms make a tremendous difference in student behavior. When I taught in a parochial school there was always a marked change in the students every time we had a dress down day. Most of the public school teachers that I know, including many of the ones I kept in touch with would love to have a uniform policy established.

Me too. First for the reason you just mentioned, second because pupils attentions get too much destracted on relatively unimportant things like having the latest of the latest gadgets and wearing the "in" fashion labels in order to be "cool".

Last time I dared to mention that over here to a group of students long time ago, who where studying to become school teachers, I got - in seriousness - called an authoritarian Prussian, and a Nazi .

Who said Germans have no sense of humour?

[U570]

Originally Posted by Diopos

The uniform thing can be viewed (and handled) within two different contexts.

1. Traditional "old-school" discipline (mostly for its own sake) OR
2. As a lesson on equality and citizenship. Must go with an environment that promotes personality "growth". (We are "equal" but not "identical").

.

I understand those, but even in these, there can be variations in the uniforms, even if it's just different brands, and about 2cm difference in the length of shorts etc. That's the way I've been taught, the same but different in a way

[August]

I'll have to add my endorsement to mandatory uniforms. Even in adult education they are handy for instilling professionalism and good work habits.

We have a full length mirror in the lobby that has a sign next to it that says:

"Do you see the professional you are training to become?"

[mookiemookie]

As the product of a public elementary school system where uniforms weren't required and then a private high school where they were, I absolutely 100% support mandatory school uniforms. They instill a professional and businesslike atmosphere.

I don't buy this "freedom of expression" crap that the anti-uniformers argue. Dude, you're 12. What groundbreaking and vital personal expression does a 12 year old have to make? Kids are in school to learn, not make a fashion statement of their individuality. Besides, if they can't express themselves through their words and deeds and need clothes to do it, then they're turning out to be a shallow individual.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by August

I'll have to add my endorsement to mandatory uniforms. Even in adult education they are handy for instilling professionalism and good work habits.

We have a full length mirror in the lobby that has a sign next to it that says:

"Do you see the professional you are training to become?"

I agree with you here but the wear of uniforms must also be implemented as part of an entire program uniforms alone I feel do not instill discipline.

Many people seem to forget that there a some very non professional organisations that wear a manner of uniform street gangs I see a uniform as way of showing that you belong to a group be it a school,an agency,the military,an institution(prison) not necessarily a sign of professionalism.

I think that grade schools should have something similar to a roll call in the military each morning ( done in the military at the start of each shift) one of the purpose of a roll call is to establish
discipline and command it establishes order and respect it is also a time to announce important information.In some nations like Japan they do this at school they also sing a song as a group before beginning class this is all done in one gathering not over an PA system.

Schooling should prepare a student with the fundamentals to allow them to be a productive member of society I think most American schools fail at this goal.

[August]

It seems we've concentrated on being individuals so much we forgot it's a team that usually gets the job done best.

[Stealhead]

I notice alot of people have bumper stickers or T-shirts that have the American flag on them and it says "United we stand" I think that is a poorly designed logo because they leave out the most important part "Divided we fall".

In modern times there are too many distractions from what is important more people got upset about Netflix(I could care less) raising its fees than anything else last year.

If you ask me the idea of banning any form of human contact and getting rid of any sport where you can loose is a very bad idea competition is a good thing
it makes people want to perform better.If a kid is lousy at playing a game then they will know that they tried and they can either put more effort into it or do something
else like play an instrument but you still have to put forth effort to be any good at playing the instrument and being on the debate team or what ever.

[U570]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I notice alot of people have bumper stickers or T-shirts that have the American flag on them and it says "United we stand" I think that is a poorly designed logo because they leave out the most important part "Divided we fall".

In modern times there are too many distractions from what is important more people got upset about Netflix(I could care less) raising its fees than anything else last year.

If you ask me the idea of banning any form of human contact and getting rid of any sport where you can loose is a very bad idea competition is a good thing
it makes people want to perform better.If a kid is lousy at playing a game then they will know that they tried and they can either put more effort into it or do something
else like play an instrument but you still have to put forth effort to be any good at playing the instrument and being on the debate team or what ever.

I completely agree with you, the idea that so many people get upset about minor things like that is appalling, competition is great. I play soccer (not like the pros though) and I'm probably the most competitive; because I'm trying. I'm nowhere near brilliant at sport, but I am definitely better at music: I can play trumpet, keyboard, guitar, bass and I am sort of learning sax.

[Takeda Shingen]

Well now we're getting into a completely different problem. In today's environment of 'everyone gets a trophy', students are constantly told that they are all smart, important and that everything they do is wonderful. What we have fostered now is a generation of students that are incredibly self-assured and yet much less capable.

[Rockstar]

Schools will pride themselves on voting in homosexual prom queens and kings. But stop a young man from bringing in a date who just happenes to be a porn star to a prom?

One group likes same sex partners and thats promoted and tolerated. The other (the porn star) well, just likes it and probably lots of it and she's not allowed? Come on man where's the tolerance in todays society I'd rather see that porn star than a drag queen any day.