Now this is too much !

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hmm, i wonder which ships were sunk then ? Compared to all ships heading to or from England convoys were the exception as far as i read, in 1939 and the first half of 1940 ?
You may be right, but in most of the accounts that have been published the few convoys that were, were scarcely defended, if at all.

I can't speak to who the u-boats attacked. I only know my research into the convoys. You can find out how many convoys and what ships were involved on any day of the war here:
http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/index.html (click on 'Convoy Finder')

On October 1, 1939 there were 15 convoys at sea. Eleven of them were cross-channel convoys; the other four were from/to Halifax or Capetown. The Halifax convoy (HX.3) was escorted by a light cruiser and two Canadian destroyers. That's not much, so even a single u-boat would have a decent chance of bagging a merchant or two.

Even worse, the so-called convoy out of Jamaica was three merchants with no escort.

What I find interesting, and unexplained, is the fact that the Channel convoy leaving Loire for Bristol on the 1st had no escort, while the one the very next day had five!

You're right - there were a lot of single ships at sea, but every day saw a large convoy and a bunch of smaller ones somewhere.

[Catfish]

Hello,

thanks for the links and information, SailorSteve the convoy page link is really a phantastic resource. You wrote
" ... You're right - there were a lot of single ships at sea, but every day saw a large convoy and a bunch of smaller ones somewhere ..."
Well, Germany somehow lost the war - and it was decided at sea, with all kind of resources getting to England despite the odds.

To CCIP - i agree later in the war, but initially few destroyers were doing convoy service or so it seems. Anyway their numbers were too scarce to protect all merchant shipping around the british isles - the 40 (?) aging US destroyers received through the lend and lease agreement were requested for a reason.

The boats would then try to attack before the destroyers met them for the last miles to escort them through the western approaches, or along the northern route.
Later in the war, but long before Hitler declared war to the US, the US destroyers had accompanied convoys to mid-atlantic, and then let them go from there, then shielded by british destroyers - at the "Momp" (mid-ocean meeting point). Some destroyers just steamed on and helped their british friends in detecting U-boats, sometimes even dephth charging them, without war declaration.
The US had just extended their territorial waters to the mid-atlantic, to make any attack on "their" western side a reason for entering the war - something Hitler tried to avoid at all costs. But this took some time and it was not done until 1942 or so i think.


To TDW and BilgeRat:

There seem to be different generations of sensors built-into SH5, but i have no idea whether and how they work correct - or if at the right time - or if at all.
This is a very good site for ASDIC information:
http://jproc.ca/sari/index.html

I know it is usually doubtable to quote the internet, however this is exactly what i read in german books (and i am very thankful i do not have to translate all that, already at 50+ pages english text about Zeppelin attacks to translate) ..

From this site:
" ... To say that convoys were well protected by Asdic would be an understatement especially in the early years of the war. Typically, a convoy consisting of 30 to 50 merchant ships created a perimeter distance of 16 to 18 miles. In theory, the escorts were positioned so that their Asdic beams overlapped, providing unbroken coverage of the convoy perimeter. The reality of the situation was different. An escort group usually consisted of one destroyer and three of four corvettes, barely enough to provide proper coverage especially with Asdic whose range limits averaged around 2000 yards under normal conditions. When convoys did have sufficient escorts, not all the Asdic sets were used simultaneously. ..."

I have no idea how to use the information in SH5, or if it is possible at all - would sure be a hell of a task.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Catfish

It is 1939, Western approaches.

A convoy of one battleship (!), 10 destroyers, and appx. 12 merchant ships is heading toward England.

- I was 8000 meters ahead of the convoy at night in rain and fog. They saw me.
Next try:
- I am at 10000 meters and dive, let the convoy go on above me. They find me at 160 meters depth, engines stopped, silent running.
- Next time i got in surfaced, the battleship destroyed me at some 8000 meters with no visibility (night, fog, whatever).
- Next time i got in submerged, sunk the battleship and two freighters.
Am down at 160 meters, some damage. At last 10 destroyers above me hours later, circling around my exact position, dropping charges and charges and charges. Not every charge hits but those which are most distant do the most damage. Each destroyer must have 100 dephth charges at least, i have stopped counting.
Does anyone notice that the modders try to fix the same things again and again ?

Guys this is ridiculous.

1. No battleship would escort a convoy in 1939, ok maybe they just tried that out ?
2. Not much convoys in 1939, not yet.
3. England did not have enough destroyers, anyone remembers the lend and lease thing with the US ? 40 old 4-stackers because England had not enough destroyers before 1942 ? Initially those had no ASDIC and most not even Radar. Now in 1939 we have 10 radar- and ASDIC equipped full-blown destroyers for one convoy, from late Fletcher class to whatnot in 1939, with well-experienced crews from 1945, or maybe much later.

Not to forget that the type VIIa is obviously not able to dive below 150 meters without taking hull damage.

I could list another hundred details that do not fit, from one screw not turning whan charging the batteries to all that other B$ that resides in the Silent Hunter series from SH3 on. Why the hell did they not improve the sim by also making it a bit more historically correct ? This has all been mentioned a thousand times ! Here, at UBIsoft forums and in numerous other simulation forums.

There's nothing more frustrating than such concocted history.
Sorry for the rant, but i am really disappointed; first you see a promising sim, and then that.

Doenitz would have resigned in september 1939, under those conditions.

Well, rant over,
Catfish

sounds like the sh2 ai?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

sounds like the sh2 ai?

I wonder if you can 'cloak' by having your rudder go hard to port, hard to starboard and then midships.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

sounds like the sh2 ai?

Don't forget Catfish is not playing with the mild watered down stock AI, but with TDW's IRAI mod, which in its unadulterated form can be like "Bungo Pete" reincarnated..

[Catfish]

Small heads up.

Was just sunk by a hunter group consisting of 6 destroyers and one light cruiser accompanying 1 (one) Cimarron tanker, in october 1939.
At 160 meters, running silent with 50 revolutions/minute and the crew put to rest.

The first two depth charges hit at my exact depth, at the exact point, one meter left and right of the conning tower
(Had i survived i had told Donuts he can put his U-boats were the sun don't shine; the british defence is invincible )

Have to find out where to lower the AI settings .. maybe there is a setting for zero, or maybe -1.

Greetings,
Catfish

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Small heads up.

Was just sunk by a hunter group consisting of 6 destroyers and one light cruiser accompanying 1 (one) Cimarron tanker, in october 1939.
At 160 meters, running silent with 50 revolutions/minute and the crew put to rest.

The first two depth charges hit at my exact depth, at the exact point, one meter left and right of the conning tower
(Had i survived i had told Donuts he can put his U-boats were the sun don't shine; the british defence is invincible )

Have to find out where to lower the AI settings .. maybe there is a setting for zero, or maybe -1.

Greetings,
Catfish

Read here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...171973&page=69

NOTE: is this mod perfect? NO WAY. It will continue to evolve as I learn more about the files and the game itself. Does the mod contain any bugs or errors? I hope not but to say it doesn't would be foolish. I will address errors/bugs as users find them and post them in my AIs thread.

NOTE: this mod can be customized by editing the \data\Scripts\AI\init.AIX. I went to great lengths to make it user customizable and for testing different setups/configurations (testing)

Although it is setup for the complete beginner to use the AI difficulty might be too much for the beginner. You can adjust the AI difficulty by editing the following file \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix. Find the following section:

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;

# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

Difficulty is from 0.0 to 1.0 with 1.0 meaning 100% difficulty. I recommend adjusting only the highlighted values. If you are a beginner I would recommend values of 0.8-0.85 for those highlighted. If you are an intermediate I would recommend 0.85-0.9 for those values. If you are an expert I would recommend 0.9-1.0 for those values.

[kiwi_2005]

I had the same thing happen with my first patrol up against the carrier taskforce, sunk the carrier but couldn't escape escorts knew exactly where I was, silent running, depth charges! Dead. Tried 3 times before just giving up. I had IRAI mod enable now I just run Ui boat /open Horizon & Environment 5 mods and can now get away from escorts, mostly.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Don't forget Catfish is not playing with the mild watered down stock AI, but with TDW's IRAI mod, which in its unadulterated form can be like "Bungo Pete" reincarnated..

My claim to fame, I think I was one of the first people to notice the SH2 AI was fubared. Sadly, I can't find any of those posts. Thay would put me back to 1999ish. I just remember the whole SH2 saga-circus, and after all of that, to have the game (the vanilla version) be a dud.

Anyway, it didn't matter what you did, the destroyers always found you and dropped their DCs spot on.

[Catfish]

Yes, they will still drop their ashcans exactly where you are.

It seems the mod does not change this (yet), only they find you better
Now they also throw charges farther away, but if you are inside of a certain distance there is no chance, and this is wrong because just of all that close the ASDIC would temporarily lose contact, so a sudden fast turn would save you, at least for that attack run. Even several destroyers would not use the hydrophones while charges were thrown for obvious reasons. ASDIC is another thing ...

As well the boat gives in a bit too early, every time there is a damage your hull will suffer, while in reality it would merely have been a ruptured pipe, or some blown fuses without damaging the pressure hull as such.
Certainly, they used wooden beams to support dents in the pressure hull if charges had gone off really close - but to have a "pressurehull-o-meter" in percent ? Either the hull is cracked, or not. And you will sure know it ..


Also remember SH2, i enjoyed it for the graphics (for that time lol) and played the competely scripted "campaign" (15 missions ?) one time, and the single mission at the Azores and the refuel one several times. And then never again ..

SH3 was a quantum leap, but the same depth charge problem. And SH4. And SH5.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Takeda Shingen]

SH2 was released on 11/6/01. We sat and waited for a long, long time and that game just came up short. Then there was the 'cloaking' issue.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Also remember SH2, i enjoyed it for the graphics (for that time lol) and played the competely scripted "campaign" (15 missions ?) one time, and the single mission at the Azores and the refuel one several times. And then never again ..

SH3 was a quantum leap, but the same depth charge problem. And SH4. And SH5.

Greetings,
Catfish

Pacific Aces mod for SH2 and Aces Campaign mod was a godsend.